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If a magic oracle tells you p=np, that's useless. How would that change anything?
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I would hope the magic oracle would continue to tell me ways in which I can use this knowledge practically.
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If it’s an oracle and we know it’s an oracle then it’s not useless. Humans make mistake and there are examples of published results that were widely believed to be correct by experts that later proved to be wrong. Why do you think human verified proofs are better than machine verified proofs?

Suppose an oracle tells us the Riemann Hypothesis is correct. There are a vast number of results of the form:

If RH is correct then A.

It would be very useful to have an oracle tells us whether or not RH is correct.

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I asked how would it change anything. What's the next step if an oracle were to tell you p=np that changes anything about the world?

We all believe it. It's a magic oracle. Now what?

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If it is known that A is provably true then one can study the consequences of A being true. It changes things becuase the body of knowledge has expanded.
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> If it is known that A is provably true then one can study the consequences of A being true

But one can already study the consequences of P=NP right now. You don't need to know that it's provably true in order to do that.

Knowing an actual proof would be useful, but an oracle revealing merely that it's true (or even provable) without telling you the proof does not let you do anything you couldn't do before.

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In this case won't this oracle also tell you what is the consequences as soon as it tells you RH is true and also much more? At this point what is the point of you knowing what is true and what is not?
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> It would be very useful to have an oracle tells us whether or not RH is correct.

For what? Which product becomes better if it is correct?

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You have an unfortunate view of the value of knowledge. The frontiers of science would be static if everyone believed as you do.
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Someone claimed it would be "useful", without saying what for. Hence the questions "what for?". To try to shame people for that question in the name of science of all things is wild.
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The whole point why anyone cares about these proofs is that the things we learn as we make the proof might add value, proving p = np itself isn't interesting, that knowledge has no application and therefore no value in itself.

I have published mathematics so I do value knowledge, but for most of mathematics the value of the knowledge isn't the thing you try to prove it is all the things you learn as you try to prove it. p = np is one such thing.

So the whole interesting bit about it is the proof, not the fact.

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You are wrong as far as most mathematicians believe. The fact is important. The proof of the fundamental theorem of algebra is interesting and important but the theorem itself is also important.

For what? Which product becomes better if it is correct?

This sentiment is anti-thetical to the whole point of pure math and theoretical science. No product became better when Euler proved the fundamental theorem of algebra.

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I thought the point of publishing was a matter of dissemination, to make available for people to then try to understand it? This is like saying, I don’t like music, so I’m going to tear down the venue. Then, all music genres suffer as a result, and all of society does, too. This idea is no good.

Somebody, eventually, somewhere would understand it, or at least aspire to understand it. And even if he doesn’t, what have they learned in the process? About themselves, about their environment? About failure? I would bet a lot. How useful then, can we say that it is, not because we can understand it, but because we can try? That is useful. This is about the journey. Sometimes the journey is the point.

This is like if math was fascist, this is what would happen. When you start controlling the flow of knowledge like this, it will be bad news all around. And who is to say whether or not something can be understood?Aside from the math nazis.

If we are going to dictate what gets published like this, why bother publishing anything? This feels like a gatekeeping…that’s exactly what it is. Ya’ll getting nervous?

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Oh it would change a lot. It would be an enormous psychological boost for everyone to find a practical algorithm.

In any case, I think it's better to read PP as somebody would find a practical, albeit incomprehensible, algorithm for solving NP complete problems.

Although I probably disagree with PP, because even a candidate algorithm that mysteriously works without proof would have practical value, so this case is not predicated on proving.

I think a better example of genuinely practical but rather uninteresting (YMMV) mathematical proofs are proofs of convergence of numerical methods, FEM for example. (I have been through it in school, it was a torture.)

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> a practical, albeit incomprehensible, algorithm for solving NP complete problems.

It would not not necessarily be practical, even if it ran in polynomial time. It may have cost O(n^c), with a totally out of order exponent like c=A(5,5) or whatever.

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I know, the goal was to strongman the argument.
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A proof by contradiction that p = np is of no use to anyone, given that it wouldn't help you find any polynomial time algorithms for np-hard problems.
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I don't think a proof that P = or ≠ NP would give you any polynomial-time algos for arbitrary problems either.
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I don’t recall anything specific off the top of my head but I am confident that such a proof would have immediate actionable implications.

Furthermore, careful analysis of the latter would as likely as not yield further understanding and, actually /would/ help finding such algorithms.

Finally, it has been observed time and time again that often (again, nothing comes up and i don’t want to ask AI) the certainty that something is possible and has been done is motivation and inspiration enough for people to independently solve a problem. Sometimes it is even enough for someone new to simply not know that something is “hard” to solve.

It even “motivates” llms, it seems (eg https://cdn.openai.com/pdf/04d1d1e4-bc75-476a-97cf-49055cd98...)

Of course this is all pure speculation concerning a hypothetical proof that most likely doesn’t exist, or indeed might be so complicated as to not be approachable even after hundreds of lifetimes of study.

Nevertheless your conclusion does not follow from the premise

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Abstract polynomial algorithms are of no use either, eg, translation may require galactic constants or high powers that are still intractable.

We only compute with two kinds of things:

- small data; or,

- extremely lower power and coefficient algorithms

We lack the power to, eg, use a quintic algorithm in anything but nearly trivial cases.

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A proof that they are the same is of no use either, since it too wouldn't help you find algorithms that are faster.

You would need an algorithm that finds solutions, not just a proof they exist. So the value here would almost entirely come from how you proved p = np, since that proof will probably be the first step towards finding the polynomial solutions. But if humans don't understand it good luck finding any.

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How would the mere knowledge that it holds, without any understanding why, be useful?
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Can you explain to your cat how Amazon uses graph theory to deliver their packages of cat food?

Is Amazon still delivering food to your cat?

Humans don't need to understand what AI generates. We still can get the rewards.

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p = np doesn't produce any value though, the stuff you learn solving it might but the fact that they are the same wouldn't be valuable at all.
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sure, agreed, but once you have a proof, you can probably get AI to reduce other problems to that problem in P.
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Well then, just tell the AI that the statement is true and it will find reductions!

In reality, it wouldn't depend on the truth value of the statement, but on the AI understanding the proof. If it understands it then it might be able to use it to find reductions.

So the point remains, knowing that P=NP isn't what's important, it's the proof that matters.

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Why wouldn't you be able to do that without a proof? I don't see the value of the proof here, just ask the AI to solve the problem you want and the proof isn't needed.
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Why would it not be able to find reductions now, but be able to find them just by being told that P=NP is definitely true?
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From my understanding, the two are equivalent; if you can reduce an NP problem to a P problem, you've proven P=NP. The rest is application.
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Yes but it's also possible that there are other proofs. The point remains, the content of the proof is what matters, not that the statement is proven.
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