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First off- Texas has an explicit law making copper and catalytic converter theft a "Jail felony"- but if you break any other laws on the way, it's upgraded to a class 3 felony. See: https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/?tab=1&code=PE&chapter=PE... And. if you really want to play cops and robbers, a personally witnessed jail felony seems to be enough for a citzen's arrest.

Second: "(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury." - YOU HAVE TO BE AFRAID FOR YOUR LIFE Texas gives citizens enourmous latitude in these matters, but it's not carte blanche for murder.

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Deadly force can be lawful in Germany as well, reading Texas law I wonder which nuances of the laws make the biggest difference (assuming there's one).

Could also be that the difference comes from owning land works differently in Germany (because it's much more densely populated) and of course owning anything except small guns is completely forbidden.

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people freqently conflate Stand Your Ground vs Duty to Retreat... with the entire rest of the debate.

I'm trying to keep this neutral, so I'm using a rather cut and dry example: Somebody kicks in your door with a pump action and starts shooting- There are _some_ jurisdictions that require you to try and flee. You kill them and they werent bodily blocking your car in? Murder charge. investigation finds a sabatoged engine? Doesn't matter.

Stand Your Ground assumes reasonableness and codifies leaveing the fight or flee decision up to the individual.

Ultimately- you're going to have PTSD either way.

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I can’t see a catalytic converter theft on a car parked on the street as burglary. Parked in a (private) garage? Yes, burglary. Parked on the street? No.

So, daytime theft of a converter from a car parked outside wouldn’t qualify I don’t think.

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It also mentions:

> theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime.

Seems like that qualifies

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I think this even covers graffiti during the nighttime.
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Did he stutter ?
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Parked in your driveway
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No, the driveway wouldn't count. Texas doesn't define burglary by property boundaries; you have to enter a "building" or a "habitation", and a habitation must be a "structure" or a "vehicle".
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Are you sure that doesn't qualify on the basis that it is the curtilage of your home? Often this counts as "in your dwelling" because it's in your private space that immediately accompanies the dwelling.
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> Often this counts as "in your dwelling"

Is this true in any context other than a potential fourth amendment violation by an agent of the state?

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If you sleep in the car it will qualify no matter where you're parked. This also appears to be true of an RV or any vehicle that clearly accommodates sleeping.

For reference:

"Burglary" under the Texas penal code is defined by entering a habitation or any portion of a building that is not open to the public, either with the intent to commit a crime, or when followed by the actual commission of, or the attempt to commit, a crime.

"Robbery" is theft in which the thief causes an injury to someone else. (Or intentionally threatens to do so.)

"Theft" is what it sounds like.

Most notably burglary need not include any element of theft. I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in.

On topic for this particular comment, "habitation" is specifically defined to include vehicles "adapted for the overnight accommodation of persons".

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I have a friend who came out of his house to shoot and kill a guy who was inside his car attempting to steal it. Friend was literally a local celebrity for months.
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So what happened? Was there a legal judgment? Did he get legal advice? Did local newspapers commission and publish legal analyses?

(Did this happen in Texas?)

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>I feel like it's a mistake for the legal code to distinguish between what are fully interchangeable terms in the language the code is supposedly written in.

They're not at all fully interchangeable, just many Americans have a poor grasp of the English language.

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The language is solely defined by what people think it means. The terms are in fact fully interchangeable.

If you'd like it packaged in something that looks authoritative, you might consider the following definitions from Merriam-Webster:

burgle: to commit robbery

rob: to take away as loot : steal

thieve: steal, rob

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What's the point of Texas, then? Maybe Florida?
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You can legally murder people to prevent "mischief", as long as it's at night? Wow.
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IANAL.

Mischief is typically a serious crime; the legal and common uses of the word are different and confusing.

But I don't think Texas is restricting this to the more serious felony mischief here.

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In this case Texas defines "criminal mischief" in three clauses, and separately defines circumstances under which it constitutes a felony. Felony mischief is largely but not exclusively defined by the amount of pecuniary loss.

The first two clauses are destroying property and damaging property in a way that causes pecuniary loss to anyone.

The third clause is making marks on property. This seems like it would always be included under "damaging property in a way that causes pecuniary loss", so I would guess it's there to make it completely explicit that graffiti counts as criminal mischief.

The quoted section of the penal code does not appear to apply any restrictions to the specific variety of criminal mischief that justifies deadly force (other than that it occurs at night).

For something like graffiti where the general sentiment is that deadly force shouldn't be considered justified, I could see an argument that the use of deadly force violates §9.42(3)(A), which requires the person using deadly force to reasonably believe that the land or property in question "cannot be protected or recovered by any other means". If we view both verbs as applying to criminal mischief, you could make the argument that when you catch someone spraying graffiti on a wall on your property, your property can be recovered, though not protected, by e.g. repainting the wall.

The counterargument might be that "recovered" is in there as the appropriate verb for cases of theft, and "protected" is in there for cases of mischief.

I don't think restricting §9.42 to felony mischief would be an improvement to the law; it's difficult to know whether criminal mischief is or isn't a felony until you've tried to recover from it and learned how much that will cost. If you catch someone keying your car, for example, that probably is a felony, but as far as social impact I would rate it similarly to graffiti.

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It ain't murder. (other words apply)
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“Legal” murder makes absolutely no sense. If its legal its not murder. You mean “legally kill”
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It can also mean unjustified/immoral killing, which can be a useful definition (otherwise e.g. a true dictator can never murder anyone).
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That’s not a useful definition in a democracy. Who gets to define what’s justified if not the duly elected legislature? I bet if you put the current Texas law on the ballot today you’d get the same answer.
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If you put that on the ballot in other states this would be more popular than initially thought by most.
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The alternative would be completely incoherent. If it's OK to prevent theft, the appropriation of property, it must also be OK to prevent criminal mischief, which is the destruction of property.

Note that the harm to the victim is identical in both cases, except that in the case of theft, recovery may be possible.

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Yeah.

You expect pigs to defend you?

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