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Did you ever publish anything? First year or two it is mostlu pushing marketing/pr, and the long tail of trickle of money is where the true earnings lie. Also, for many works of art it takes more than 2 years to produce a next piece, and even if it was less, it’s not sure if it will actually sell.

Anything below 5-10 years and you have literal starving authors. Anything less than 5 and you may as well abolish it altogether.

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we have literal "starving authors" - they pretty much all need second jobs to survive.

for the authors themselves I don't see much difference between having no copyright at all and being thrown a few pennies on their work from amazon. either way the ability to make a living from those pennies clearly isnt motivating them.

the future jk rowlings of the world will still buy lottery tickets to fame and fortune whether or not she ends up being worth $20 million (weak/no copyright) or $1 billion (strong copyright).

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What you are describing is the view of copyright set down in the US Constitution, but it doesn't necessarily apply to the rest of the world. In many countries, copyright is strongly bound up with the author's moral rights.
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I'd rather give it to individuals than corporations at least. It's useful as a lever to protect the weak from the powerful. Perhaps it should simply not be transferable? Another alternative would be for its power to weaken over time in some way.
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Then you will prevent corporations from paying authors to create work altogether.
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You don't think they would still pay them for the right to publish, if not ownership of the copyright itself?
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They can still sell the stuff for 10-20 years and make a huge profit. They just can't use it for multi-generational runaway growth.
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We live in a world where there is an absolute abundance of art, music, novels. You can find it everywhere, huge amounts of it either free or very cheaply.

In what way is the system as it exists currently failing to encourage the creation of new works?

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It encourages creation of new works just fine, but at the expense of creating billions of tiny monopolies that last for generations, which get aggregated into huge monopolies, ultimately making ordinary people into criminals for wanting to preserve or modify the works that make up their culture.

My point is that it doesn't need to do that. Copyright could still encourage creation of new works with a much shorter duration, without the downside of locking our culture up in monopolies for life + 70.

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None of that contravenes the purpose of copyright in encouraging the creation and sharing of new works.

You could equally solve the issue by providing provisions for archival. Or a provision that requires a work to be freely available for sale.

The creator having a monopoly on the work seems to me to encourage the creation and sharing of work as intended.

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Most of that art is being created irrespective of copyright, though. Much of it uses exceptions to copyright and some is straight up in violation (most "fan art"/fanfiction). It's either not monetised or monetised through things like Patreon.

I wouldn't say we have more "traditional" art that an author spends time creating with the vision of selling copies for years to come, than we did when copyright terms were shorter.

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I doubt that's true.

Is there a lot of fan art, yes, there's also massive amounts of original works as well. There is no lack of either.

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Mandating that creators lose control and the ability to profit from their work almost immediately will absolutely not encourage the production of new works.
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> We grant copyrights to encourage production of new works for the benefit of the public

Which includes giving creators royalty rights that can be passed on to their heirs, so the elder author can finish their manuscript on their deathbed as a gift to their family.

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Congress has currently chosen a duration of life + 70, but my point is that it's absurdly far beyond anything necessary to encourage the production of new works. When you consider the costs of copyright monopolies to the public, it's clearly out of whack. As I said, the majority of revenue from copyrighted works happens in the first couple of years of release.
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I completely agree that life+70 is absolutely obscene, as my response to your parent post clarifies. I moved on from that since I thought my stance was clear (14 + 14 or 28 total), and moved on to “we should still honor the copyright even if they die, because heirs matter.”

NEVER have I argued for life+70 and I never will.

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Has this ever happened, or is it a scenario you made up in your mind?

I know a few great works were published posthumously, but most of these were because somebody thought it was really important to share, not because it was a golden goose they wanted to start... milking.

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I don’t have a specific example; but I don’t like the idea of an author, photographer, painter, songwriter, etc’s familt losing their copyright because their plane crashed the day after they recorded a record.

And again, to be clear, since apparently people think I’m defending life+70. I am abso-fucking-lutely not.

I want 14+14 or raw 28 back.

Edit: oh apparently I do, thanks Kagi Assistant.

Otis Redding Died in a plane crash literally 3 days after recording a famous track and his family earned a LOT after his passing.

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He was arguing against two years. A lifetime is fine.
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> We don't grant copyrights to give authors a kind of royalty-based pension for their old age and their heirs.

"We" is doing a lot of work here. I realize that it's basically impossible for an entire population to have coherent motivations, but I support copyright because I think artists have the right to control what happens with their work and to sell it if they can. I believe that this right extends, like all rights, until the end of the author's life. I don't really care one bit about encouraging the production of new works.

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How about "We the people", as stated in the Constitution? The Constitution itself defines the purpose of copyright, and it is not the purpose you state.
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> until the end of the author's life.

which is too long, and also too short - what about authors who wrote finished their book on their deathbed? Then their rights are shorter than someone young - an unfair discrimination.

That's why age should be irrelevant. Copyright is useful, and should be granted. However, current copyright grants last far too long - age plus some years beyond. Not to mention corporations lobbying to increase the length right as some copyrights for some works are about to enter public domain.

Therefore, copyright should be granted for a single period and end - like patents. 20 years seems to be a good middle ground, but i could hear arguments for slightly longer or shorter.

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Same exact duration for all authors: as long as they’re around and capable of caring. It’s not the same when duration is expressed numerically, sure. But consider: no life is the same in this way (until immortality is discovered), yet all should be valued equally (or so I hope and believe). Timing life makes them unavoidably unequal - and thus differences in lifetime shouldn’t be a criteria to use for comparing rights. That’d be actual age discrimination.

I suggest to rather look at it under the angle whether estates should be able to inherit author’s identity (or some of it), to continue the will.

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