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> But, I eventually couldn't find anyone to play with me because I crushed everyone

I think this is a problem with many deeper games. I remember going over to other people's houses and they would pull out obscure-board-game-xyz. The rest of the night for me was trying to figure out how to play, while others were 30 steps ahead of me.

I think you need something like chess club - stratego club - where people have all gotten to the nuance level and you can play with people of appropriate level.

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I feel like the depth of a lot of board games gets undersold simply because of how inconvenient it would be to play a large number of games physically. And/or because it's easy at the start to try something complicated, fail to get it right and end up concluding wrongly that only the simple things actually work.

At one point in my life I got in literally thousands of games of Dominion, and I was definitely still not as good as some of the people I discussed the game with online, but in person I could barely find anyone to play with, ever. (In fact, of the people I knew who were familiar with it, few even seemed to think it was any good as a game.)

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I've played a lot of Dominion with people who have played thousands of games. I've even beat them with some frequency (it's not that hard!).

I don't think Dominion is a good game. It's good if you maybe think cubing is good. And it can be a lot of fun!

But as a game? It's not good. If you have no idea what you are doing and are totally unfamiliar, you can even win pretty easily with some luck. But you won't understand why you won, or rather why others lost.

There are many, many games where everyone can read the rules together and be, more or less, on even footing. Dominion can sometimes be that way, but it can pretty easily be extremely opposite of that.

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>If you have no idea what you are doing and are totally unfamiliar, you can even win pretty easily with some luck. But you won't understand why you won, or rather why others lost.

Interesting, this is a _feature_ of poker games like Texas Hold'em. If the losing players didn't go on convincing winning streaks, they'd stop playing. And those winning streaks can convince them they don't need to learn anything else about the game in order to be a winning player.

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Or another way of saying it, when the default no-thinking baseline strategy can win frequently enough by chance that it becomes difficult to learn from a single game. In this case, just 'buy silver, then gold, then provinces) can win too often just by chance.
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Board games really get so much better once you get a vaguely-regular group. If nothing else, you can walk in one night and everyone just knows how to play a lot of really great games right off the bat.
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Does anyone else remember playing Electronic Stratego? The version where the identity of each piece was encoded on the bottom with a series of bumps? It was an even more incomplete information game: attacking a piece would only let you know if the piece was higher, lower, or even, instead of revealing the piece's identity. I played it so much as a kid that I can't even think of Stratego without hearing that electronic bomb sound in my head. I feel it is actually a better game than the original.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratego#Electronic_Stratego

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That is the rules we used for playing stratego. Attacker reveales his piece number and the defender declared who won, or obviously if both died they were even.
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Electronic Stratego didn’t even reveal the number.
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Question: I need to play this again but there are many different versions. It's impossible to decide which one to get. Which is the best one to purchase?
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I love Stratego. I used to play with my girlfriend and my brothers. We started playing with different rules too to switch it up. Like moving bombs or the flag. Or playing with the pieces reversed. Reversed pieces were interesting because the hidden information was swapped, made for some funny games.
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> including my dad who was much better than me at chess.

My experience as well unfortunately. No matter how many books on chess I read, no matter how many games I played against Battle Chess to try to get better, he always won.

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Chess...I'm in the top 1 percent among regular players on chess.com/lichess, yet impossibly far away from Master/GrandMaster level as to be impossible; their minds are completely alien to me.
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Impressive. Keep at it. I hope you'll find a Eureka moment. I also hope they're not just cheating using AI.
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Becoming such is not my goal; I have too many other interests. It was more commentary about how one might be good, but no where even near competitive, and the journey, even if mentally capable, of improving further would take years and year of full time dedication...because chess is that deep, and because "good" is always context dependent.
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Makes me wanna play against Swell Joe's Dad \s

But about having nobody to play because you crush everyone - as long as you want to play to enjoy and not just always go full-on try-hard mode - just stop crushing everyone and you'll have people to play with.

Let people win every third game. If you're good enough (at it), they won't notice. They'll have a good time and you will. In Tekken it works to have them win some rounds (extra points if you let them have two out of three), but still win the match, tho maybe only if you're not just 2 ppl playing.

That's a rule established from rat behavior observation study, you can hear about it in every third jbp lecture.

Ever since implementing it, I never end up with nobody to play with. Just curb your wanting to always win and focus on maximizing the amount everyone enjoys playing in the long run.

Even a game where there's always a winner and a loser doesn't have to be a zero sum game.

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"But about having nobody to play because you crush everyone - as long as you want to play to enjoy and not just always go full-on try-hard mode - just stop crushing everyone and you'll have people to play with."

Sure, I'll go back and tell my 12 year old self to do that.

But, actually, I did do that, to some degree. As I mentioned, I would drop hints and talk about my strategies in games, usually after the game, so he could be more competitive and understand how I was thinking about things. That also has a cost on the fun for both parties, though. Smart people can recognize when you're going easy on them. Nobody normal likes being pandered to.

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Stratego has a special place in my heart. I have fond memories of playing it with an old family friend. Later in life I sought out an old set off eBay so I could play it with my kids. I really love that game!
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I also enjoyed it. We even used to play live Stratego at camp with index cards in our socks with our ranks.

What was the secret of your success?

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I don't actually know. I had a few strong setups that I rotated through, but even after I started explaining my strategy after every game, and even giving hints during the game, my best childhood friend would still lose so much it wasn't fun for either of us so we stopped playing. He's smart, and was fine at most games, but no match in Stratego. I guess I'm just good enough at the various aspects of the game, memory, bluffing, planning, that it added up to being a pretty strong player even without much in the way of study or practice. I'm sure I'd crumble against an actual serious player, and would have back then, too, it was just that I wasn't around anyone else who liked the game enough to become good at it.
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I'm curious. I could kind of see that being fun, but I could also see 1 person moving with 79 standing still, and two players who get to make all the decisions. Did you guys modify the rules?
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Very little standing still. Everyone is running around. It's a bit like capture the flag, except when you tag someone you compare index cards to see who is higher rank.
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I, too, remember figuring out a strategy when I was around 11, and never lost a game after that.

It's been a loooong time, and I don't recall all the details. But it revolved around doing probing attacks to determine where the ranks were in the enemy formation, and then having "channels" in my side to move up a soldier that outranked by 1 a targeted attack.

Color me surprised that it would be difficult to write a program to play it.

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Most of my setups, though not all, revolved around bombs and strong soldiers held in reserve behind the bombs, sort of a rope-a-dope...sometimes, I'd kill all of their miners before the bombs surrounding the flag could be disarmed which guarantees no quick win for them. There are risks to that, in that the strong pieces can be stuck while the opponent picks off everything else, but even once people knew I regularly did that, I could still win pretty much always, so it's more than a strong opening layout.
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Sounds good. My "channels" were a way to move the right pieces to where they were needed. I did this repeatedly, and my opponents never learned.

One thing Stratego did was implement the "fog of war". My Empire game took inspiration from Stratego and Risk.

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In hindsight, maybe Stratego in childhood is part of why I love Civ games so much, which, I think, tickles a lot of the same brain parts. The setting up the board part is heavily why I liked Stratego so much, and in Civ games, you get to plan your cities and empire. Or, maybe it's just the kind of game I find satisfying, and Stratego was the first instance of it I played.

And, I'm also working on a game that kind of pulls on that same kind of upfront planning, where how you place your pieces to start is as important as how you move them; a settling and strategy game that's heavy on clever defense and using terrain and the interplay of pieces.

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It has such a strong story despite being so simple.
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