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Very Cool. Thanks for making it!

I've checked out a few bike mapping apps recently and one feature I found absolutely invaluable was grade indications like http://hillmapper.com (which unfortunately seems unmaintained.)

Google Maps elevation diagrams comparing the various selected routes are nice but they do not do a good job of highlighting extreme grades. I feel like you actually want to graph the change in elevation rather than the elevation itself.

Using a route I cycled the other day (near Mission Bernal Safeway to near Diamond Heights Safeway). I think the routing may overweight bike lanes too much. For instance it will go four blocks by shared street and bike lane to avoid the two blocks on Clipper between Sanchez and Castro which are not a bike lane.

On my heavy cargo e-bike I've found there is quite a non-linear difference as the grade increases. 12% and I'll work a bit but be fine. 22% (the route Google Maps sent me...) and I'll all but collapse after a block.

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Hillmapper falling apart was one of the main reasons we prioritized getting good elevation data into our router. We include steepness indicators for steep blocks and an elevation overview of the full trip and have found that combo to serve us well.

Getting between those two Safeways is rough. Bikehopper fails, it suggests the harry street steps; a non-starter for most. I’ll try to fix it. I definitely agree that grade is non-linear. We use accelerating weighting for grade so a hill that is twice as steep is more than twice as “discouraged” by the routing engine.

For bike routing I think e-bikes need a separate profile from acoustic bikes. Hill matter less and stairs are totally out of the question (this is important for routing in and out of transit centers).

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> acoustic bike.

I’m a cyclist - thought I knew the terms.

‘Acoustic bike means a bike without an electric assist. So, a "normal" bike. I know the Path Less Pedaled youtube channel has used this term for at least a couple of years, though I don't think that's necessarily the originator. It's a play on electric/acoustic guitars.’

https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/14wwx0t/whats_an_a...

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I understand that “acoustic” is generally the term now but it’s too cutesy and doesn’t make any sense. The difference between e-bikes and normal bikes have nothing to do with how they sound — if anything, a traditional bike is quieter.

I always thought “analog” made more sense and it’s commonly used in other areas.

(Okay, technically you could make an e-bike with completely analog electronics, but I highly doubt anyone does commercially)

There’s even “pushbike” if you want to go way back, though admittedly it sounds rather archaic.

“Acoustic” just sounds like a Portlandia joke.

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How about 'organic'?
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I would say "manual" or "fully manual".
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Ill stick with 'real', and until my will fades and knees fail, I'll do my best to maintain my sense of superiority.
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Back in 1992, Christy Moore’s (less famous) brother released an album titled “The Acoustic Motorbike” featuring a (regular) bicycle on the album cover.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Acoustic_Motorbike

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The specific route suggested varies a bit depending on where you move the starting point. Closer to Sanchez St it does a better (albeit not perfect) job than google maps.

I guess as a cyclist in SF I’m not necessarily looking for the routing to be perfect but I am looking to see the information that matters so I can understand how appropriate the suggested routing is.

Agree that e-bike and acoustic bike riders probably do have slightly different sets of preferences. A big one for me is that I’m ok with 4 way stops every block on slow streets on an e-bike but on an acoustic bike they’d drive me nuts.

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Can you please consider expanding it to include Seattle? Or better yet Puget Sound area? 1m DTM elevation data is available here. We have many amazing bike trails, but also plenty of hills that must be avoided.
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Check out Modemix (modemix.io)

It's available in Seattle

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Modemix is solid. Same goal as bikehopper and lots of active dev. We (bikehopper devs) know the modemix dev. Good guy, solid app. I think the Modemix hill data isn’t as detailed as what we use for SF.
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We’d like too! It’s an open source project that was never designed to scale beyond one regions (bay area, puget sound, NYC, etc…) our hope has always been been that folks in different regions would spin up their own copy. By keeping it regional the data and hardware requirements for running it are minimal. That said, we are working on a new routing engine that we hope can scale to support continent wide routing. Then we can manage running it for many metro’s. If you’re interested in self hosting for Seattle we are happy to help get it set up.
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What are the system requirements for hosting it? I'm not sure I have the discretionary funds to host it for the general public - but it all depends on how heavy this is :)
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We run it on a single coolify box from someone’s house. 6 core, 32GB ddr4 memory box. The actual routing query are compute intensive but only momentarily. More cores and memory means higher concurrency but we’ve never had an issue with load in the Bay Area with a few hundred users a week. We used to run it on a k8s cluster but we cut it down to save on power and infrastructure management overhead.
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What does it mean to “cut it down”? Not familiar with k8s personally and unsure if it’s a technical thing or you just stopped using k8s
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By cut it down I mean, use fewer machines to host it.
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I imagine this kind of app is rather monolithic in nature. Maybe a static webapp frontend and then a single backend service? Not much of a point to split it into microservices if there is no real need to independently scale them and you don't have multiple consumers of each independent service. And if you don't need microservices you are probably better off avoiding the overhead of Kubernetes.
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The architecture is a static asset server (nginx), basic backend app server (node js), routing engine (Java) which is a fork of graphhopper, fast geocoder named photon (elasticsearch), full OSM places search called Nominatim that feeds photon (postgres) as well as a few asynchronous jobs that pull the latest OSM and transit data then rebuild the search indexes.

This was on a k8s cluster for a bunch of reasons. We eventually scrapped it and put the stack in one box instead of five.

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In the meantime, you can check out maps.earth, which has bike+transit directions for the puget sound area (also sfbay, los angeles, portland)

...though the elevation model I'm currently using is courser (~30m, from Mapzen skadi). This is a good reminder to fix that where available!

Hit me up if you want to use the iOS beta which has some nice transit features (already available on the web).

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Nice! I’m always exciting to try a new non-car centric mapping/routing app.
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Would a DSM not be preferable to a DTM? Or is that you reference with regards to large trees?
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DSM includes buildings and trees. So the DSM from SRTM data makes market street in S.F. look like a series of very steep hills and valleys because some of the datapoints are street level while others are the roofs of skyscrapers. DTM removes the buildings resulting in a map much closer to what we think of from the ground.
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It's interesting (and unsurprising I guess) to see that bike lanes in the US are much like those in the UK - a line on the road, rather than real segmentation.
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They are a real segmentation in some places but as you can probably guess that is few and far between. A line on the road is also in the minority with the rest being nothing at all.
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