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I see them collapse when faced unusual problems. They’ll go down a weird rabbit hole and then just keep going, even if their idea is completely irrational and not working.

They’re incapable of changing their mind, because they’re a Markov chain. They’re cool and they’re good at doing things, but they’re not sentient in the slightest.

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Not at all the same idea. People also rathole into doomed approaches. What we're talking about here is literally LLMs producing line noise, or English words that don't fit into sentences.

(I don't think LLMs are "sentient".)

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I've seen this reflex quite a few times now. To diminish the impressive capabilities of the latest LLMs, one resorts to the assertion that they're not sentient, or not truely intelligent, or various other semantic diversions. No one claimed that. GP was all about usefulness.
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Then GP misrepresented the "On the Dangers of Stochastic Parrots" paper, which spoke about meaning. But GP also said "meaning" several times, so no.

There's some haziness here about the difference between comprehensible output and comprehending. To put it mildly. I mean that's been the whole question for five or six years.

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I really wish the article in question hadn’t used that phrase, because you’re right. But the rest of the article is also correct in the dangers facing us from this technology as an accelerant regardless, and I think it’s much more interesting to talk about that: but this entire comment thread will dunk on the stochastic parrot paragraphs instead.

The funny thing is though, I think it’s an in group signalling mechanism. You need the anti-AI crowd to know that you’re anti-AI, and this is a rapid way of doing so, to get it upvoted here.

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I’m glad the article used the phrase because it was a useful indicator of the author’s underlying biases
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The article is extremist nonsense where the author argues billions are going to die due to climate change in the next decades, and that Altman and Musk are hoping AI can until then replace human labor in order to keep their living standard in such a future.

It's not like the "stochastic parrot" thing was the only problem here.

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An LLM did not do those things! An agentic harness around an LLM did those things.
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This is a distinction that only matters if you're having a philosophical argument, but the claim I'm addressing from this article isn't philosophical.
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It is a practical distinction. An engine is not a car.
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For a mechanic, that's a practical distinction. For most people, it isn't.
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I don’t see people driving engines around, since that is impossible. You actually need the rest of the car around the engine to have it function as a drivable vehicle.

It is a pretty practical distinction.

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Of course. But most people don't buy an engine, ever. They don't have one laying around. They buy a whole car, every time.

So, since apparently I may need to clarify my actual point: For most people, an LLM-plus-agent-harness is just "LLM" or "AI". If you're trying to build one, you care about the distinction. Ditto if you're a pedant. But most people are not either of those things.

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the most widely used API surfaces are already shaped around chat, it's different and most analogies will fall short in some way
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Neither a chat or an API are an LLM.
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By that standard Gebru was also not writing about LLMs in the Stochastic Parrot paper.
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LLM's have chat templates that sit at the lowest levels of how we feed tokens to them. It's quite integral to how they are trained to process tokens and rises up through the tech stack.

Go to a huggingface repo, look at the files, they have a literal chat_template.jinja

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Well, that may be what it was coined to mean, what does it mean now? Stochastic = statistical, parrot = using training data.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stochastic_parrot

"a metaphor that frames large language models as systems that statistically mimic text without real understanding". I suppose you're defending them as having understanding. It's not "safe to say that argument has collapsed utterly", you're part of a campaign to reject the meme. On the other side, the meme is popular as a way to be rude about AI, because it's a cutting insult.

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> what does it mean now?

It means whatever you want it to mean, that's the best part. To me, it's best used as it was intended, but primarily in the contexts where the stochastic parrots are plowing through the ivory towers we built mostly for idiot savants.

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I don't even think the claim (about what she was saying) is true. It's still used with the original meaning, which was not about being fooled into perceiving legible text, but fooled into perceiving understanding.
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Sherry Turkle is far more articulate on these things in her latest book Artificial Intimacy (which is about much more than the relationship chatbots)
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> It's safe to say that argument has collapsed utterly. Modern LLMs virtually never collapse into endless babbling loops. Far more importantly, they solve objectively hard problems.

And yet, they still output gibberish. They also still fail to solve objectively easy problems on a regular basis. That is because they are, indeed, still stochastic parrots without any actual understanding of anything or ability to reason about stuff. The argument hasn't collapsed at all.

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> They also still fail to solve objectively easy problems on a regular basis

Which?

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What is exactly "actual understanding" . If it tells 1+1 = 2 it can perfectly explain why the result is 2. Or do you mean the actual transformer work during the 1+1 question?
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How'd your parrot do at IMO this year?

LLMs are certainly stochastic, but they no longer meet any sane person's definition of "parrot." I can't imagine Gebru disagreeing. Has anyone bothered to ask her?

(Consider responding with an actual counterpoint, so we can all see what reasoning might give rise to such a delusion. Does your pet parrot do calculus and write stories and reverse-engineer Adobe applications?)

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