upvote
It's absolutely not SOTA for vibe coding a whole app, but for guided work it is great.
reply
Is anyone actually oneshotting a whole app or even vibecoding one in multiple steps without it being "guided work"? I really wish announcements (like DeepSeek's recent one) would stop focusing on the ability of the model to spit out Minecraft clones on demand.
reply
Some people are trying to one shot entire companies
reply
And failing.
reply
Someone at work vibe coded a replacement for a entire third party SaaS that we were using in a week. Their version is better.

It wasn't one-shotted of course but I don't think there's much difference in the outcome between one-shot and like 100-shot over a week. That company is still doomed.

Think of something like Trello. Who is going to pay for that when you can easily vibe code something superior (yes you really can now).

reply
Open source companies somehow make money off enterprise contracts. People still don't want to be on-call if something breaks, or have to manage servers and backups. But making money off SLAs to implement new features will probably be a thing of the past.
reply
Indeed, but only a tiny handful of companies have been successful with that business model, and they mostly make margin on things you'd have to pay for anyway like cloud services. No company is going to pay e.g. $15/user/month for Jira when they can get the same thing for free - better even. And yes it isn't an exaggeration to say you could vibe code something better than Jira. (Especially because that's a low bar!).

I'm kind of surprised nobody has done that yet actually. I guess Opus 5.5 has only been out for a very short time...

reply
> No company is going to pay e.g. $15/user/month for Jira when they can get the same thing for free - better even

It wouldn't be for free though, would it? People need to build and maintain it (and there's LLM cost associated with it too).

Let's say you are a 5 person start-up. It makes much more sense to pay $15/user/month for services like Jira, Slack, Email etc. then to build and maintain everything yourself.

For super large companies, it might make financial sense to build some of the tools in-house. But then again, that probably already made sense for LLMs were a thing. But there is more to it than just the pure financials (i.e. salary).

reply
You really don't need to be that large for it to make sense. A lot of these products are very rarely updated. Jira hasn't improved at all in the last 10 years as far as I can tell.

Maybe a 5 person company wouldn't do it. A 100 person one though? No brainer. And it only takes one to open source their solution.

reply
The Red Hat or Canonical of vibe-coded/decomp/cloned software is just around the corner.

Slop curators and tech support shoulders to cry on. Could be lucrative.

reply
OP didn’t mention one-shotting.

There are plenty of use cases for the ability to quickly through together and refine an application without reviewing the code though.

reply
I have one-shotted the two most recent relatively complex apps I've tried:

1. a puzzle game with complex interplay, pieces to place, design vs. play mode, storing multiple solutions with the puzzle, and more. I've since iterated something like 200 times as I worked out the design etc., but the first iteration was 99% correct and what I asked for

2. a learn-to-read application with built-in stories (that the LLM wrote) the ability to import epub, text, and HTML, that uses the built-in speech libraries as a default, but also supports an open-source TTS library that I gave in the first prompt, tracks progress and problem workds, has multiple games to reinforce learning, and has a parental mode for tracking progress and configuring the tool overall.

Frankly I was stunned that Claude one-shotted that second app, there was a lot in the prompt, and it did it all. I fully expected to have to iterate on the first draft multiple times. But it worked out of the box.

reply
With Opus 5.5 you can vibe code a whole app without reading the code at all. Obviously you still have to tell it what to make.

With earlier models that doesn't really work. You really have to read the code and watch it like a hawk or it will make a big mess.

To put it another way, with lesser models you have to guide them at a code level. With Opus 5.5 you only have to guide it at an architectural / feature level.

reply
People said the same for 5.0, 4.8, 4.7, and...

I am not disputing that the models are getting better for vibe coding. But I think people have very different standards of what a 'big mess' or 'maintainable software' is.

reply
The only meaningful improvements were opus 4.5 and now opus 5.5, people claiming otherwise are delusional. The gap between opus 4.5 and the next big thing was massive, now the same is true for opus 5.5 as much as I hate to admit it anthropic is running the show right now.
reply
They did but IMO they had very low standards. I have very high standards and Opus 5.5 pretty much meets them (at least for Rust).

"People said it before and it wasn't true then" isn't really an argument about it being true now. There are plenty of things that happened where the zealots jumped the gun with the hype. Bitcoin for example. "People said bitcoin was going to succeed in 2005, 2006, 2007...". Or even the web. It was mega hyped in the dot com boom and then crashed and of course loaaads of stupid people thought that was the end of it.

reply
which model is SOTA for vibe coding a whole app? I always use models+agents in guided setup

the moment there is a model which can code whole app, we can fairly say software engineering is done.

reply
Opus 5.5 + Claude Code (or probably any agent harness; I don't think they make that much difference). I wouldn't say software engineering is done quite yet but yeah it's definitely never going to be the same.
reply
It's really not neck and neck with Opus 5.5.
reply
Cost-adjusted,it might be ahead.

It's key to name the boundary conditions. Unlimited cost is a very HN assumption.

reply
Max Subscription seems to be the HN assumption most of the time
reply
Really depends on your use case.

You are right that there's plenty of use cases where Opus 5.5 is better.

reply
If it depends on your use case then it’s not neck and neck…
reply
Why? I'm pretty sure I can find use cases for which DeepSeek is better.
reply
True, it isn't neck-and-neck. It's neck and balls. Deepseek's balls and Opus 5.5's neck. Whatever you can build with Opus 5.5, I can build in the same time, 1/500th the price with Deepseek Flash 4.1.
reply
Or at a really good time, depending on who you ask.

Not everyone wants Anthropic to succeed.

reply
If Anthropic or OpenAI fails, the other wins the US market, no? I’m oversimplifying but…that’s a pretty realistic possibility in the face of people thinking sinking one US AI company would hurt the greater US venture into AI.
reply
> If Anthropic or OpenAI fails, the other wins the US market, no?

I am of the opinion that they both either succeed or they both fail. They are both losing money hand over fist and their model quality is pretty close to each other. There is not a whole lot that sets them apart.

reply
I agree on the analysis, but not on the conclusion. What makes you think that the conditions you describe are stable grounds for a duopoly where both could be successful at the same time?
reply
If one fails the bubble pops so you're right.
reply
What if both fail?
reply
If they did then Google would take over, and others would form from their competent engineers. Also, they don’t need to be profitable to succeed, they merely need to hype investors enough to ensure that their losses matter less than their growth projections.
reply
I wonder if Google won’t end up the last man standing in the end in the west, after Anthropic that they have a major investment and partnership with, and OpenAI crumble under their large financial burdens; while Google has a far deeper actual cash pockets, more diversified, broader and deeper bench in all related matters on top of the massive name recognition and… even if a bit brittle… a “community” of users through Gmail, Google.com, Google workspaces, etc. not to mention the TPU space and their quantum breakthrough.
reply
What if all of them fail because the capitalist model of centralization followed by rent-seeking gets foiled by an open alternative?

That is explicitly the Chinese strategy.

Now, what if the largest capitalist economy went all-in on an AI that might no longer be sufficiently monetizable?

reply
> explicitly the Chinese strategy

Oh come on, this post sounds like one of those twitter bots. No one seriously expected them to just give away billions in R&D for free, and they arent. The chinese model companies are actively moving away from the open source setup. Even state export controls.

reply
Let me quote the big guy himself:

> First, we should adhere to the principle of openness and win-win and boost innovation-driven development. As a new engine of world economic growth and an accelerator for the shift of growth drivers, AI is moving from the digital world into the physical world. We should seize this rare, historic opportunity to encourage open source, openness, collaboration and sharing. We should facilitate technological innovation, industrial development and scenario-based application of AI. We should make coordinated advances in the transformation and upgrade of traditional industries, the cultivation and growth of emerging industries and forward-looking planning for future industries, so that all sectors and businesses can benefit from AI

-- Keynote speech by Chinese President Xi Jinping at opening ceremony of 2026 World AI Conference

http://english.scio.gov.cn/topnews/2026-07/18/content_118605...

As a socialist myself, the above comment looks like a prime example of what Mark Fisher would call capitalist realism, the ideological belief that there is no alternative. The fact that somebody would think past quarterly earnings appears unthinkable to the committed ideologue.

They wouldn't give away R&D for free, they would give it away to destroy the capitalist mode of production, as outlined above. If that isn't a worthy goal from China's perspective, then I don't know what would be.

China isn't the US. They don't share the same ideology, strategy or conclusions.

As for the export controls, they explicitly exempt already-open models and set up an automated streamlined process for future ones.

reply
> As for the export controls, they explicitly exempt already-open models

Well... obviously. What the fuck is the point of export controlling an already open model.

> for future ones

Nope. >2T models (i.e todays frontier) is explicitly not allowed.

Also see: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/china-proposes-ad...

> China isn't the US. They don't share the same ideology, strategy or conclusions.

Money and power know no ideology. They do pretty much the exact same things as the US as well (from a 3rd country's POV). They expand territory, they capture industries, etc, etc, etc,.

> Keynote speech by Chinese President Xi Jinping

Do you take the same literal interpretations of other politicians' speeches? Surely you know thats politicking, the same way every G2/G7 leader says they want a collaborative world blah blah but it's naive to not know that it is cutthroat competition in reality.

> they would give it away to destroy the capitalist mode of production

Well, I won't take that dream away from you, but you're gonna be disappointed in this particular case, in our lifetime, with this particular country, atleast :)

reply
No? Why would either of one of those have to win? Even if you limit yourself to US companies only, Google and Meta still exist.
reply
The others, plural, meaning Gemini, Muse, and all the open weight models hosted by a competitive landscape of US providers. There is plenty of American players in the space outside of OpenAI and Anthropic if that’s the only thing you care about.

If Anthropic and OpenAI economics are as bad as they seem to be they deserve to fail, others will take over the remaining market. It’s not a team sport

reply
i thought open models weren't SOTA. therefore not neck and neck... in your experience, do you think it depends on your type of work?
reply
They're about half a gen behind. Very impressive to get this kind of utility from a flash series model... the impact of RL seems to be behind much of the coding and agentic improvements lately.
reply
In my experience, for coding, they are pretty much SOTA. Maybe not for other sciences and problem solving.
reply
Models are comming every 4-6 months. Anthropic, OpenAI, all of them know this.
reply
4-6 months? Try between 8-18 days for a foundation lab release.
reply
> bad time

Regardless of the performance metrics... why bad time?

Deepseek is more like a pet project with huge state backing, and they don't seem to compete with Anthropic in terms of profitability.

reply
Deepseek is profitable.

Anthropic is most likely not. Despite bilions of state funding and contracts.

reply
It literally is not though... even DeepSeek doesn't claim that. It's just super cost-effective
reply