upvote
The technical infrastructure of Bending Spoons is interesting.

For people who don't know Bending Spoons, their strategy works as follows:

1. Buy SaaS company

2. Set up new product team of 15 people in Europe

3. Re-implement backend on Bending Spoons technical platform

4. Make the original company (100 people?) redundant

But what I find interesting is that their technical platform is fifty different generic reusable parts that work on whatever they put on top of it: Vimeo, Evernote, Miro, Airtable.

Combing back to OccupySaaS: there could be real value in a 'generic core' and then re-engineer all SaaS solutions on top. And then to get service again for the core.

reply
I think it depends on the total cost and the size of the company. A 30 person estate agent probably won't clone a SAAS CRM and create a support team. A company the size of JP Morgan might.
reply
To expand on that, yes bunch of people believe they pay for buttons, text boxes so features and UI.

Completely forgetting, security updates with regression testing , backups, data structuring, performance engineering.

reply
And a phone number
reply
And "one throat to choke"... although I'm informed that not very PC these days, it should be "one hand to shake"...
reply
"Why Homer, your hands are so soft". It got dropped years ago, so safe to say, yea it's not very PC.
reply
To some extent, but for the most part, they're paying to shift responsibility to somebody else.

The people who buy software are not the ones who pay the bill. If you hire a contractor to build custom-tailored software:

- If it is buggy or lacking, you'll be blamed.

- If it gets hacked, you'll be fired.

- If it works well and saves the company millions, you get a pat on the back.

The incentives are off. Why on earth would you not go with the established provider?

reply
Maybe for enterprise box-checking. I'm sure that can be outsourced to some separate liability-shield or narrow consulting service instead. For a lot of companies, the software bit is actually all we need. I hope the current shakeout lays bare the "SaaS" whose only reason to exist as a SaaS is gluttony. ArtCraft is doing a great job illustrating that for one particular company.
reply
Speaking of ArtCraft, do you know how it's doing? I saw some mixed comments when it was first released. Do you use it? Does the stability approach, say, Photopea?
reply
We have about 50 core developers and we're maturing our processes. If you're interested, you can join us in our Discord.

Each focal area is getting DRIs, and we're doing cross-cutting work to make everything componetizable and cross-platform.

We're scaling up the scope of our mission and ambition, too. We view software freedom as not just applications, but also infrastructure and weights. There are a lot of things we want to contribute to ensure the OpenAIs and Anthropics don't become the next extractive monopolies.

> Does the stability approach, say, Photopea?

We had some debate internally about whether to begin diverging the project from what Adobe does and begin innovating on our own.

We instead decided that 100% feature parity is the goal. Parity is a milestone for us because it validates what we've done, and it also serves the muscle memory of the tens of thousands of Adobe users.

After we hit parity, we can easily turn our applications into entirely new ones with more opinionated UI/UX and net new features.

reply
Speaking as someone who uses Adobe apps on a regular basis, I care more about file format compatibility and correctness than feature compatibility. Obviously the two concerns overlap.

But I'd much rather have bulletproof linked file support than "concept to vector" or "live paint" (as cool as those are)

reply
> We view software freedom as not just applications, but also infrastructure and weights.. to ensure the OpenAIs and Anthropics don't become the next extractive monopolies.

Love to see this rebellious spirit of sovereignty and collective action. It's what made the "hacker culture" great.

Seeing the meteoric success of the ArtCraft series of applications, I'm hopeful and looking forward to the positive disruption of the industry, by the makers, for the makers - and screw the takers.

reply
The "occupation map" and its current targets are exactly the opposite: services that either have a big support or maintenance component to them.

Especially during the current time of unprecedented pace of security patching, decrying this as "enterprise box-checking" couldn't be be more displaced.

reply
> ArtCraft is doing a great job illustrating that for one particular company.

Thank you!

I think many of us as a collective profession are going to be doing this.

We're going to open source apps, then infrastructure, then weights. The hyperscalers created the seeds of their own moat dismantlement.

Web 1.0 was great - forums, personal websites, IRC, a million chat options, RSS, APIs. It was this way because the world was technical and everyone had energy to do things. It was a Wild West, and it was fun. You could buy and own things back then.

Web 2.0 brought on our parents and grandparents to the world of broadband. Most of the new users were non-technical, so the tech of Web 1.0 got simplified into "product". The sharp edges were removed, and everything became simple. Over time the leaders built up their moats, removed APIs, turned into walled garden silos. Companies began to become extractive and enshittify their products.

Today the conditions that led to Web 2.0 are no longer true. It doesn't take a ton of energy to build things, and it doesn't require deeply technical people to do it either.

The entire tech sector is going to be a blood bath. Where there were once moats and monopolies, there's now going to be prolific and wide spread open source and a market rife with competition.

Big tech is turning into the food service industry. Passion driven, distributed, highly competitive, though probably lower margin. Plenty of opportunity for small businesses.

reply
Thats easy: service providers can train on the spftware to offer the service. Its literally what theyre for. Redhat didnt make linux but charges a reasonable price to support it. Like lets open source slack or something, and enterprises could self host it, or get it served by one of the service providers that pop up. And if there are bugs that are reported, then the service provider could use AI to fix them and upstream the changes so all the users benefit from it

The difference will be that they can have rent seeking practices when the software itself cant be taken hostage. They'll charge for the service and wont leech off the user for way more money than they deserve for making and maintaining the software

reply
I can’t believe you’ve summed this up so succinctly.
reply
It’s amazing to me that it’s 2026 and dev culture has still, after decades, never managed to comprehend the biz side of the industry.

Is this true in other industries? I suppose there’s probably car people who don’t understand that most people don’t buy cars because they love cars. They buy what cars do. If they could get what cars do without having to hassle with a car they would.

reply
can't agree more
reply
spot on :)
reply
Specifically, they pay for the cronyism aspect of the service. They pay because they're friends with the founder (or the decision-maker expects kickbacks now or in the future or at the very least; they share the same VC and are doing someone a favor), not because they need the features of the software. The features are only there to provide narrative support (I.e. justification for the money being paid). You can see that this is the case when the software gets really bad and there exist free open source solutions, the company has self-hosting capacity, but the company keeps using the expensive, clunky SaaS solution founded by their buddies... Then sometimes they jump ships to their buddy's SaaS company and get a nice fat salary as a reward for having helped to create the parasitic dependency.

The OccupySaaS people are delusional thinking that the system works well enough and is honest enough that a solution exists within the confines of that system. Same delusion the Occupy Wall Street folks had. Didn't work out for David Graeber, did it? The tech sector is fully and thoroughly owned. We're not heading towards feudalism. It's already tech feudalism. The tech landscape has been fully monopolized. You can't do any business in tech without the approval of a tech overlord.

There is 'how the situation looks' and then there is reality which is 100 times worse.

reply
Hmmm, no. I mean, yes that happens, but I'm pretty sure you've also paid for software in which you don't have buddies at that company.

I pay for Fastmail and I don't know anybody there. Same with Microsoft 365. I wish I was friends with the Roshal brothers!

What you mention, is a case of private sector corruption and I've seen it first hand, but I wouldn't say it's normal or even discuss it as regular practice.

In my B2B days I definitely saw deals made among friends like that, but I mostly saw salespeople inviting potential customers to expensive dinners that did not end in a sale. Failed cronyism then?

reply
Yeah well we're just the plebs and we use whatever big tech forces us to use and whatever they allow us to discover through their discovery platforms and recommendation engines. About your Fastmail example specifically; All non-approved email services are blocked; if you try to set up your own service, all your outbound emails on behalf of your customers are marked as spam by big tech. Seriously, try to setup your own SMTP email service.

Every service has a moat; sometimes a technical one (I.e. block competitors as spammers), sometimes the moat is regulations (Are you SOC2 compliant?); other times it's just a business contract between people who belong to the same club.

reply
You are right on all accounts. You might even be right these folks are naive and even delusional. That doesn't make it impossible to turn out great though. Let's wait and see.

Richard Stallman must have looked almost as delusional when he started a free compiler and an OS in the 80s.

reply