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I grew up in Texas when football was basically religion. My parents flatly forbid me from playing. Any other sport was fine, no football. Every single person I knew on the team ended up with at least some kind of minimal, permanent injury. This was a decade before there were publications about CTE.

I'm quite thankful that I never ended up on the team, and think the entire concept of high school football is incredibly stupid given what we know about CTE.

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When I played little league and high school football we had this one activity we did called "The Door". Essentially, it was a piece of plywood stuck in the ground so that you could not see who was on the other side of it. We broke into two lines and you just ran full speed around the door not knowing who you were about to smash into. The teams and coaches essentially cheered when someone got a "stinger". That was when you got hit so hard that your head felt like it was getting stung by a bee...I often wonder what effects that kind of stuff has had on my life.
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Same here. When did Boston University start publishing about the CTE/football connection? 10 or 15 years ago? A couple I know, one with a public health degree from an Ivy, still let one of her kids play through all of that, and he played at the college level, too.

At the same time, a lot of parents (myself included) steered kids to other sports. That had another effect: there was even more pressure on parents who didn't care about CTE (and their kids) to get into football because kiddie leagues and especially high school teams were short of players. This happened to a friend whose two boys were strong hockey players, the coach at their school pushed them to try out for football the following season.

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> Same here. When did Boston University start publishing about the CTE/football connection? 10 or 15 years ago?

Our science writers at BU have been writing about CTE research for at least that long. Oldest I could find was 2010. We've published a lot on the topic on our main news site and our science publication:

Brink CTE stories: https://www.bu.edu/brink/tag/cte/

BU Today CTE stories going back to 2010: https://www.bu.edu/today/tag/cte/

Some favorites:

This 5 part series: https://www.bu.edu/brink/series/cte-how-bu-is-changing-the-g...

This story about Youth Football: https://www.bu.edu/articles/2018/youth-football-linked-to-ea...

And this video from the Director of the CTE research center talking about how these discoveries impacted her as a huge football fan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUsDvKyhtA4

I'm a creative director @ BU and our designers have occasionally helped our editorial teams with story designs for these types of research stories. It's been interesting watching the progression of the research over the years and as a parent as well I would not let my kids play football based on the research. There are other, less risky sports they can enjoy. Skiing, Martial Arts, etc. I don't believe we can or should protect them from all risk, but this CTE research has been a clear enough signal in how football is played for me to be wary of letting them play.

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Tbf, IIUC, hockey's not much better. Same issue: high speed collisions in padding that makes high speed collisions seem less damaging than they actually are. Boxing, too. Most field sports aren't much better.

Lift weights and play tennis or baseball.

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Baseball and Tennis are really gruesome on tendons, joints and ankles. Apart from colliding with a second baseman while trying to get there is also a potential concussion risk, not even talking about getting hit in the head with a wild ball or any other abstruse risk. I guess in terms of longterm damages with irreparable damages basketball might seem the safest unless you are a high-flying guard thats 6"1 and dunking over people 15 inches taller.

sure you tear an ACL here and there, but thats nothing modern surgery cant fix.

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Basketball's a bit fraught since the NBA does their best to memoryhole Muggsy Bogues. God forbid the meta shift to making having a manlet or two on the roster advantageous. Wemby can't even bend that low!

Somewhere, there's a dude in spandex and legwarmers muttering to himself, "It's my time." [Maniac fades in]

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The adult culture around high school football in the US is creepy to me. All these grown men pushing and promoting and getting excited (and aggressive) about it, with stadiums and equipment and media that would put most professional leagues overseas to shame.
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I've so far seen 3 ambulances at high school soccer games, and one at a football game. (the football player was fine, and back to school the next day, just being SUPER cautious about his neck after a tackle).. the soccer players, 1 concussion, and 2 broken bones.
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It is somewhat common to break bones in soccer, but bones heal. Soccer is not like football. Football is a sport where you’re supposed to run into other people, often head first.

Of course people get hurt in soccer, but that’s out of the ordinary. For football, getting hurt is the ordinary. Most likely people aren’t calling ambulances because getting shaken up and a bit nauseated is par for the course for football.

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> Soccer is not like football

True, but soccer is also susceptible to CTE. It is becoming increasingly apparent that soccer, particularly headers and on field collisions, also yields plenty of CTE cases. So much so that some soccer organizations are introducing protocols, such as no headers for youth soccer.

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these were already forbidden when my younger brother was playing youth soccer 20 or so years ago in the northeast US.
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I think we had an ambulance on-site for all our high-school football games.
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It's a deeply ingrained cultural tradition in a lot of places. It's an extremely hard sell to tell people to reject their traditions because of a relatively nebulous and uncertain danger. "I played football and I was fine" is a powerful argument.
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Still doesn’t mean you can’t look at those people as foolish, no different than if they handed a cigarette to their teen or let their kid get obese.
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I think both of those are overtly addictive, pointless, and negligent examples. What about encouraging them to get their driver's license, try alcohol or weed, or skateboard? What about trying to isolate them from the world on the deep suburbs?

I think it's more destructive to control and remove your child from the possibility of risk at the cost of preventing them from learning to navigate the world with the information at hand to do so in way they can manage.

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Football was most definitely a net-negative for my life. All I learned is how to be homophobic, how to be hateful, and how to get hurt.

There is something to be said about the socialization of sports. But there is such a thing as negative socialization, regression even. I would say football consistently has one of the most toxic cultures of any sport. It’s improving, very slowly. But there’s more to gain than just lower head injury risk by switching to a different sport.

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> Football was most definitely a net-negative for my life. All I learned is how to be homophobic, how to be hateful, and how to get hurt.

I played football and yet never drink, have never done drugs, am not and was never homophobic, never got into trouble etc.

Would I let a kid play football now, with all the knowledge of CTE? No. I absolutely even worry about it for myself. But it's a bit odd, to me, to say "football made me a bad person".

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I mean I’ve of course unlearned the regressive social circumstances of football, nor is it unique to football. It’s fairly common in many male-dominated spaces, particularly ones which tend to cater to toxic ideals of masculinity or, as it is sometimes euphemized, comradery.

I think basically all people who were socialized male have had these experiences at one point or another, whether it be in football, in class, in the military, at sleepovers, in the locker room.

My point is more so that football has a particular “culture”, or it did when I was a kid. And that culture was not necessarily socially productive at a young and impressionable age. When we see certain behaviors in particularly young men, we have to wonder where they come from, and what we are doing to cultivate that.

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There's a dozen alternative sports they can play with far lower injury rates.

Encouraging them to get a drivers license is fine (run cross-country), but getting them a driver's license and buying your 16-year old a sports car with bald tires and no seatbelts (football) is negligent.

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I think it's far more destructive to allow a child to play a sport that basically guarantees that they'll end up with massive brain damage.

If cars, alcohol or weed caused 75%+ of the people who used them to have massive brain damage then it'd be unreasonable to allow people to use those too.

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"Preventing them from learning to navigate the world"? We're talking about football.
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"I xed and I was fine," is pretty much it. Why beat your kids? Why let them go into large amounts of debt for college? Why circumcise your boys? No real thought of if circumstances have changed or if the original assumptions/data were flawed.
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CTE is not nebulous and uncertain. If it were not for "tradition", it would be considered child abuse to let them repeatedly slam their brains into their skulls.
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It absolutely is when we're talking about humans evaluating risk in the context of an important part of their culture. The consequences come decades later and are far from certain.
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There is something to be said for optimizing a life for safety, which just ends up being a milquetoast life. Male culture for a very long time has been about cheering on so-called “stupid” behavior, and honestly, it’s the most beautiful thing about masculine culture. It values courage and breaking away from the group. It’s not something we should lose. I’m gonna go as far as to say it’s probably the whole reason we have civilization.

Yes, you’re optimizing for your kids individual life but nothing we Americans do anymore is holistic. It’s all short-term thinking.

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Following the group in hurting yourself is not courageous, nor is it “breaking away”. Quite the opposite.

Masculine culture has traditionally, and currently, favored conformance and lack of individuality over basically everything else. It’s one of the more toxic parts of masculinity as portrayed by the patriarchy.

There are many ways to be a woman. There are many ways to be a gay man. There’s really only one way to be a straight man, if you want to be valuable in the eyes of the patriarchy. It’s all about conformity, conformity, conformity. No deviancy, no thoughts, just a blank slate of a man ready for work, family, and an early death, be it at war or doing stupid things.

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Conformity on things that are hard and furthers the human race is my cup of tea. But I also don’t agree with your analysis, the conformity is primarily around not dabbling in anything that could be considered feminine/gay that I whole heartedly support. Other than that, masculinity encourages breaking the mold in every other facet of life.
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As I’ve said, there’s only one way to be a straight man. Masculinity encourages conformity in all aspects of life.

How you dress, how you speak, how you walk, who you are friends with, what shows you watch, who you respect, how you show that respect, what you do, how you earn a living, how you have sex, how you obtain relationships. Everything, from life until death.

The perfect man is the perfect cog. He works, he doesn’t think too much, he walks and talks right, he makes moral love to his wife, and he raises his kids in a standard American family hand-picked for him by his forefathers. Any deviance from that is marks-off.

I think a lot of men need to believe that their life just so happens to perfectly fit the mold, but you see, it’s by choice. If that’s what they need to believe to be happy, then okay. I’m fine with that.

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It does not value breaking away from group. It values conformity with the group. And the test of conformity is willingness to do stupid damaging things.

And they are not courageous. They are so scared they will be seen as unmanly or outsiders, that they will do, enable and tolerate pretty much anything.

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Unless it’s actually banned below a certain age, what are you going to do if that’s what they want to do with their life?

If they don’t play and everyone else does, their development will be many years behind their peers which makes it unlikely they could play at a high level.

But maybe you’re okay with that.

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Yes, I think parents who see tackle football as an unsafe sport for their children are okay with not setting up their kids to play it at a high level.

And like any responsible parents, they presumably also don't just defer to what they're elementary aged children "want to do with their life" nor feed into the exaggeration that "everybody else" does anything at all, let alone play tackle football.

If you disagree with the dangers of the sport or are afraid of shaping your children's life choices for their own benefit, that's fine for you, but the rhetorical and snide way you presume others should share that view seems strange.

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>And like any responsible parents, they presumably also don't just defer to what their elementary aged children "want to do with their life" nor feed into the exaggeration that "everybody else" does anything at all, let alone play tackle football.

This is the only wise position. Despite the common and misleading film tropes, children do not know themselves perfectly. Often the adults "holding them back" are doing those children a great favor.

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I guess you missed the point so why don’t I spell it out to you.

The correct thing to do is to ban tackle football below a certain age. Probably college. That levels the playing field.

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Ah. Yes, I didn't pick that up in what you wrote. The seeming fatalism about how there's not much to do until or unless that happens eclipsed it. That seemed to be the focus of your comment and I could only re-contextualize it once you made it more clear her.

Sorry about the misread!

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I'm down with banning tackle football for kids, but "the people who play as kids have an unfair advantage in going pro" is an incredibly weird reason to think it should be banned.
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If they don't play a game which damages their brain when they are children, they won't be able to go into a career which damages their brain as an adult. Hmmm.
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99.9% of high school football players aren't good enough to make a career out of it no matter what they do. Avoiding literal brain damage at the cost of forcing my child into a group they're virtually certain to be in anyway seems totally fine.
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This goes for all athletics … so why even have them at all ?
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Because they don't all cause brain damage...
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Soccer probably does. Wouldn’t be surprised if same goes for wrestling.

And different sports have different safety concerns.

Distance running is known to cause increase chance of cardiac arrest.

How about gymnastics, some of those dismounts are pretty dangerous

Why single out one of them

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Because other sports still don't have (from the article) an almost guaranteed chance of brain damage long-term. That's what we can literally see from differences in the brain tissue, not even considering what we can't see and don't know.

It's singled out because it's the single sport that appears to lead to life-altering effects from invisible injuries, rather than an acceptable cost/risk of accidental injury or increased chance of extremely rare events in other sports. They are open for debate just the same if evidence comes to light.

The real question is why you believe your personal experience has any bearing on the facts presented, to the point of farcical argument. It's a shame that anything we enjoy may later turn out to be harmful, but you are arguing the equivalent of: "I smoked all my life and I'm fine", "but red meat gives you cancer too", "why are you targeting smoking when people drink", "people have died choking on air".

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In adults at least, it’s their brain and if that’s what they want or do with it, in spite of the risks why shouldn’t they?
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Of course. But we’re talking about children. And children playing is vital to any high level sport. Nobody starts playing anything at the age of 18 and goes on to become a top player.
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Fun, exercise, socialization.
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Gotta stick to the crowd at all costs, its so uncomfortable outside of it right
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