undefined

points

[-]

It's idk 10% for B2B in Poland and more than 50% in western Europe. Of course if you pay someone 135k vs 70k real income the first person will put in more effort.

In western Europe you'd just have to specify the availability requirements and they'd do it there as well. You'd just have to pay for it.

Edit: If you pay someone 150k€ in Germany what they see after-tax is just not that much. They are going to compare this with the 9-5 IGM position (when it is available...). Why not just admit that you don't want to pay equivalent wages for accessing the western european market?

by dgellow6 days ago|

parent|

[-]

> If you pay someone 150k€ in Germany what they see after-tax is just not that much

For Germany this in not true, I have direct experience of this. Your income is really high at 150k€, even taking in account all taxes you pay if you’re self–employed (plus insurances, social security contributions, etc). You’re way above what you would get from the German market, unless you go into management.

by luke544120 hours ago|

parent|

[-]

The IGM 9-5 35 hour work-week 30+ holidays job pays nearly 100k€. Add the employer social contributions and it is 116k€. He wants good work ethic so I'd say at least 25% more work time, probably less holidays, say 20. The IGM job scaled for this would be already at 150k€. He wants availability at 5pm US time, that's (best-case) 23:00 here, so night-shift work. The IGM job would pay double for this or something (this is how you get air traffic controllers earning 150k€ here).

by noprocrasted6 days ago|

parent|

prev|

[-]

> Why not just admit that you don't want to pay equivalent wages for accessing the western european market?

Is it his responsibility? If some countries have a better tax policy, why should he not take advantage of it, and ultimately end up in a situation that benefits both the employee and his company?

by luke54416 days ago|

parent|

[-]

Well, if he says that a solution for me would be to move to a country with better tax policy. If he says that it is some issue with western European work mentality, that won't help because my CV would show that I am western European.

by alephnerd6 days ago|

parent|

[-]

> If he says that it is some issue with western European work mentality, that won't help because my CV would show that I am western European.

If you are actually talented, have a good work ethic, and the track record to show that then get a job that relocates you to London.

That is your only option if you want to stay in Western Europe as a SWE long term.

by noprocrasted6 days ago|

parent|

[-]

> get a job that relocates you to London

This is terrible advice. Source: been there, done that (worked my ass off to waste half my TC on taxes and the other half on cost of living). I ended up moving to a low-tax Eastern European country so I can actually feel like I'm being fairly compensated for said talent and work ethic.

I don't actually see how your advice improves the situation - the net disposable income you'll end up with is about the same you'll have from being lazy in Western Europe - except at the very least, some Western European countries are actually nice to live in. If you're gonna be poor anyway, may as well be poor in a nicer place.

by multjoy6 days ago|

prev|

[-]

>But we want engineers who will respond to a slack message after 5pm during a P1 escalation.

Then you're going to have to pay, aren't you.

by alephnerd6 days ago|

parent|

[-]

We do. €130K-€170K TC is at the top of the range across ALL of Europe outside of HFT. Even London Investments Bankers don't make that much outside the 75th percentile and above.

Money ain't a problem, attitude is.

The Western Europeans with the right attitude either move to America (eg. I'm sponsoring the O-1 of 2 founders who are shifting from London to SF for that reason) or end up becoming leadership for American companies in Western Europe.

by disgruntledphd26 days ago|

parent|

[-]

75th percentile pay doesn't go as far as it used to, tbh. I'm on about that in Western Europe and am looking for more as my costs have increased massively.

And even though I could easily move to London (modulo family) I wouldn't as the wages there are much worse for my specialty.

Honestly based on talking to friends and former colleagues I think you're probably underpaying for many Western European markets, TC of 200k is where it's at now.

I'll leave your attitude comments out as I don't have enough context to reply effectively.

by multjoy6 days ago|

parent|

prev|

[-]

"Am I the problem? No, it must be the employees"

by throw-the-towel6 days ago|

prev|

[-]

Hey, care to share some company names if you're still hiring?

by alephnerd6 days ago|

parent|

[-]

You're a Russian national (though I do recognize you appear to be opposed to the status quo back in Russia). Sadly it's too difficult to hire a Russian passport holder.