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The what and why make sense. The how is poorly done. People are generally familiar with passwords but passkeys are different.
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sadly it seems like most of the banks I use still enforce antiquated password rules, no MFA and rely on stupid questions most of which can easily be guessed from public records.
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Just the other day I was creating an ID on a government web site, which offered a list of security questions such as "Title of your favorite movie" or "Someone that you admired as a child" and the answer was not allowed to have any spaces.

Just absurd.

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You can also just put any answer into the question as long as you will remember it.
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It should work for all people and not depend on these “tricks”.
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So you're saying that if you're inside Apple's walled garden, it works really well! Hmm...
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> So you're saying that if you're inside Apple's walled garden, it works really well! Hmm...

Or google. If you use android and chrome then it all just works.

But god help you if you want to use a password manager to keep everything in sync; I haven't yet found a way for a mobile app or web page to explicitly signal to the device that the passkey to be created should live in $password_manager and not whatever built-in/on-device key-store exists.

So I only really use pass keys for desktop/web things because that's the only place the "store/read from $password_manager" flow _works_.

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It's probably not something the app or web page should have any visibility or control over. It's more something the browsers and OS should allow a straightforward selection of where you want your passkeys stored (ideally something you can configure the default for globally). But of course the OS and browser vendors are trying to compete to do it, so they're not incentivised to make it obvious or fair.
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>I haven't yet found a way for a mobile app or web page to explicitly signal to the device that the passkey to be created should live in $password_manager and not whatever built-in/on-device key-store exists.

On Android 17 (on Pixel) you can select the password service under Settings -> Passwords and passkeys -> Preferred service.

If you have an alternative password manager installed, it will be listed there along with Google's own password manager. iOS has a similar setting but I don't know exactly where off the top of my head.

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> On Android 17 (on Pixel) you can select the password service under Settings -> Passwords and passkeys -> Preferred service.

I have this set to my password manager but I still can't _use_ the pass-keys in my password manager to sign in to most apps.

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"Most" apps? So it works in some apps, but not others?

Setting your preferred password/passkey manager on Android 17 to 1Password works fine in Chrome and Firefox to log in to any site, presenting passkeys managed in 1Password. It also works in all of Meta's native apps. (I'm pretty sure it works the same in Bitwarden.)

Whatever issue you're having, it's not an inherent limitation of Android passkeys. It might be a bug in your passkey manager…?

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Works fine on iOS. All my passkeys are in 1Password, and every prompt to use or save a passkey goes through 1P. You can also control which password managers are active on iOS (eg, I disable iCloud passwords, and only allow “autofill from” 1Password.)

So yeah, this is cross platform on iOS, macOS, Windows, and Linux.

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You're agreeing precisely with the parent commenter that passkeys are, from a user's perspective, just passwords that require the use of a password manager. The difficulties many people have understanding or using passkeys are valid to point out and criticize, but they're precisely the same difficulties people have moving from the paradigm of "memorizing or writing down all my passwords" to "using a password manager."
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I don't think you're giving those seniors good advice. When the banks ask people to "switch" to passkeys, they're not removing the passwords; they're adding passkeys as an alternate login mechanism.

If you lose your bank passkey, (e.g. if you put it in the wrong password manager and you can't figure out where it is) you can just sign in with your bank password.

In the worst case, banks actually don't make it very hard for seniors to reset your password/passkey; just show up at a branch with photo ID, your bank card, and your PIN, and a teller will help you reset your credentials. They do it all the time.

And, remember, seniors could also put a randomly generated password into the wrong password manager. In that case, they'll either have to reset their password, or they'll have figure out what they did, retrieve their password from the OS password manager, and transfer that password to their preferred password manager.

The exact same story applies to passkeys, except, because passkeys can't be copied and pasted, you'd have to figure out how to use the finicky app-to-app transfer system ("Credential Exchange Protocol"). That's probably too complicated for most seniors, so falling back to a password is almost certainly their best bet.

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> In the worst case, banks actually don't make it very hard for seniors to reset your password/passkey; just show up at a branch with photo ID, your bank card, and your PIN, and a teller will help you reset your credentials. They do it all the time.

Maybe... I just ran into an annoying scenario where the largest bank in Canada made an administrative error where they mislinked an account belonging to me to my wife's profile.

I went to a physical branch to get it fixed and was told that branches don't have that kind of ability so I'd have to call customer support.

I called customer support and failed the verification questions because the expected answers were wrong, based on their own clerical error. After failing the verification questions, I just got a "we have to end this call, no additional information can be provided, please visit a branch."

I was able to get around it by calling back in and providing the incorrect, but expected answers to pass the verification step - I imagine, however, that this could have turned into a real nightmare for seniors, or anyone who wasn't able to deduce what the expected verification answers were.

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This is more a statement of how awful Canadian banks are than anything else. For anyone unaware we have an oligopoly of five identical banks all of which treat their customers like shit and effectively extract tax from the Canadian population while providing nothing.
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Ironic given the prime minister's former employment
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> while providing nothing.

You forgot about the endless frustration and annoyance.

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> I went to a physical branch to get it fixed and was told that branches don't have that kind of ability so I'd have to call customer support.

What are the branches even for if not customer support?

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> What are the branches even for if not customer support?

Lots of physical locations make the bank seem big/safe/reputable.

Beyond that, it's sales and a place to have ATMs. I have sometimes been able to get a replacement card issued at a branch instead of waiting for one to show up in the mail.

Some branches will accommodate special requests like "can I withdraw $200... in two dollar bills" / take coin deposits but that's been increasingly rare.

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My local branch has had a sign on the front door "our coin counter is broken, sorry for the inconvenience" for the past 6 months. I refuse to believe they don't have a working coin counter in a bank branch; they just don't want customers bringing in a big jars of coins.
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I didnt even realize you could do that - I just assumed you still had to roll your own coins or use a service like Coin Star
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A meeting space to discuss business services, and a terminal for people who insist on depositing cash. They are definitely not a customer support terminal.
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> just show up at a branch

In the UK at least, there are very few brick & mortar branches anymore - banks expect everything to be done online.

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Uh, if you set up a passkey it becomes the default almost always. Then on another device it'll pop up looking for it and look like login failure and you need to "try another way". That's alarming to anyone, not to mention seniors.
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Sure, that's alarming, but if you set up a passkey on the "wrong" password manager, you've (temporarily) lost your passkey. You should probably be kinda alarmed about that.

You can click "try another way" and use your password, and then you'll have access to your bank. But then, you should try to resolve that problem. If you (or a trusted friend/family member) can figure out how to use settings to remove the passkey from your bank's account settings, you can do that, or you can ask a bank teller to help you, instead.

(And, luckily, you won't need a bank teller, because you'll still have access to your account.)

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> you can ask a bank teller to help you

At virtually all banks, the bank tellers cannot help you with login problems. You will have to call the bank's tech support and somehow navigate AI-modulated phone menu hell.

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Citation needed. Walk in with photo ID, a bank card, and your PIN, and all the major banks will send you a reset-password email.
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I went to my bank with all my ID and my bank card, talked to the teller and was told to call a support line. One of my parents went through the same thing.

I don't have a citation for you just recent experience, do you have a citation?

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Switch to a better bank.

My credit union has people who can help with any online banking/website login issues. They aren't tellers, but they are there. You just need to ask to speak to a customer service rep.

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I help run a non-profit and the only time I have ever been able to get this kind of service is when I visit a bank that has in-person business services. Tellers do not have any ability to do any of this.
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Even my primary Credit Union is limiting teller roles in branches. There are still people to help, but then you have to go in person. My nearest branch is a day trip away but I can do most banking tasks at any partner CU location.
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