Wages are certainly going down for most software roles
We keep hearing this, but where is the Photoshop killer written by a gas station attendant? Where is the PayPal alternative written by a retired nurse?
Over and over we're told that software is now trivial to write, and Claude is evidently writing some billions of lines of code a day, but where are the results? Where is the vibe coded app toppling the legacy hand-coded monster product from 20 years ago?
Ai did that with whatever cli tools were available and what it would write itself.
Ai is not a faster horse. It is a phase shift.
We won't see a gas station clerk write photoshop because we won't need a photoshop.
photoshop, paypal, and many more companies etc. have software of vast complexity that cannot be reproduced or maintained today solely with llms, ipso facto you still need software developers or some similar role to build and maintain the complexity of _yesterday_
some guy shipping an iOS app to zero users doesn't change that. although i think it is good we can have more bespoke software.
What can a mid level person do? Instead of a consultancy loaning out a team of 3-4 people, it might just be one person now. That could mean a lot of downsizing.
One thing mid level people wouldn't be counted on to do was create Photoshop or Paypal. The original thread is about top level pros being the ones who stay in the industry, right? That sounds about right if we're moving the conversation over to Photoshop and Paypal.
- if it is true that AI enhances our abilities it just means the goal posts move of what was expected for each level
- the complexity ceiling will rise for the level a superstar or a company is capable of maintaining, meaning there will still be stratified complexities for the mid levels of old to handle, it might just be higher than before
- counter intuitively but time and again increased software creation more often than not increases demand for more software rather than decreases
if the world decides it has no more problems to solve with software, then we are in trouble. i don't think that is happening anytime soon.
This is in a way the same argument that all companies will use just boxed (albeit customized) software. In reality many, ie banks run their own custom software and for good reasons. Wake me up (in retirement) when any major bank decides to run their finances, regulatory stuff and transactions on llm-generated stuff made by underpaid devs like you describe.
If its so good why aren't you rich?
There are definitely more apps developed these days but I haven't seen anything much vibe coded which actually seems to have staying power. Everything is prototype quality.
A lot of AI believers (me too fwiw) seem to forget it’s a lot harder to ‘close the loop’ on non-code projects. I think this is because they are usually coders.
Which is kinda proof they're populated by sociopaths with extremely little empathy. The people who are building that stuff are programmers, and if they had a tiny bit of functioning empathy they'd stop or slow down or at least be unenthusiastic.
And we're not talking about very high level empathy here, but the very basic kind of thinking about the effects on someone very much like yourself.
we are entering the world of smaller service firms (1 - 3 people) - where technical chops will even get paid more. the age of cookie-cutter apps is over.
You are comparing what it is with what should be.
PDF space is still more advanced than the people typing into "word processors" however. Making software to emulate letters was such a massive mistake for the trajectory of computing, it let people effortlessly "adopt computers" by making a digital facsimile of their terrible analog processes. Only with AI we now have the ability to digest all this unstructured mess.
There is a budget and when it is gone, no contractors until next budget round.
If maintenance and security is fully automated and for small changes or a small feature you will only dump some spec document into your agent platform, for sure.
If you're in a product company and your development backlog is empty, run. That company is about to go out of business.
I have stupid question here. Why they sell tokens instead of AI generated full application and AI fixes to your code without you needing a single dev?
But despite me saying that, I think it's going to take longer than four years. It takes a while for people to realize that a dream is dead.
I mean, think about it; just a few short years ago there was a very strong market for software engineers, despite outsourcing and immigration being very much part of the landscape.
I was very fortunate to get a job in a NOC a little bit after high school where I learned things one'd expect to learn in an entry level job. The team I worked on was all about mentorship, learning, and building people to the next level.
Haven't seen that attitude elsewhere in my entire career except in the non-profit world where I reside these days. It blows me away that people are surprised that these industries have failed to build entry level positions.
Which of those things changed (along with higher interest rates) in the past few years though? All the other variables did not change. They were present 5 years ago and present 10 years ago too. To me that's indicative that those factors are not the cause of a soft market for software engineers in 2026.
I am talking about the weak market for software engineers right now and what caused it.
The front fell off because the base was never built to support a shakeup of the industry. There's so little support, now and for as long as I can remember, for people to fail gracefully in the field. It's just up up up. And now that programmers are finding their jobs to be a little more precarious, maybe folk will start supporting mentorship as a practice.
This isn't just a "market" problem. It's a problem of people not teaching others skills that help them thrive inside AND outside of work.
I mean, I wrote this 12 years ago in response to similar discussions on this same site, and in the intervening years, we had a great market for software engineers: https://journal.dedasys.com/2014/12/29/people-places-and-job...
What has changed is 1) the zero interest rate environment went away and 2) LLM's.
There are around 100k U.S CS graduates . You're telling me 100k H1-Bs don't make any impact on them?
There's also only 60,000 H1-Bs a year for private companies.
Lastly the majority of H1-Bs doesn't go to software engineering jobs, it's around 30-50%.
There's also basically no US company hiring juniors via H1-Bs, so yeah, I'm saying it doesn't make any meaningful impact.
30K H1-Bs versus 400K grads...
Actually, more like over 80,000. They have a separate pool for people with advanced degrees (MS or higher) in tech fields.
Agree with everything else.
It's not an unreasonable thing for people of a country to think that the government should do more to protect their livelihoods over a corporation's balance sheet.
The correct framing is "The reason you're not getting a job at Amazon isn't because of people willing to work for less money,"
Big tech companies aren't like a Government job with rigorous pay grades based on role and seniority. You can have people even within the same role and level at big tech with multiple $100k pay discrepancies.
If someone's continued ability to stay in the country where they currently live is contingent on employment then they will accept worse conditions and pay.
That's the entire reason why tech companies use H1B, it's not as though there's a dearth of Java developers or DevOps people who are US citizens.
also nothing impressive about a senior SDE there, maybe 10 years ago it was impressive, best talent has either moved on or is L7+