Building a browser in the early web was actually a very achievable goal for exactly the reasons it isn’t now. There was not JS. No CSS. No SVG. In fact very few widely supported image formats (and graphical browsers weren’t around in the earliest days of the web anyway). TLS didn’t exist. HTML only had a subset of methods. And even POST was usually just managed by CGI/BIN calling an external process, often written in C++ or Perl.
It was a simpler time.
That’s like saying someone who fabricates cars doesn’t have the skills to drive them. Perhaps not, but they’re very well placed to pick it up quickly. They’ve also shown they can do something far more challenging, which is actually better than hiring for narrow immediate skills.
In other words: I’d hire that candidate in a heartbeat.
If anyone reading this has this un-marketable skill, Carnegie robotics in Pittsburgh is hiring
carnegie-robotics.breezy.hr/p/2d85f5321cc7-software-engineer
I recently switched roles, and among the seven places I interviewed, none of them seemed to see my then-current browser job as a problem, even though they were not related to browsers. (The closest one was a company implementing a HTTP reverse proxy, and I did not work on the browser's HTTP stack.)
People keep talking about a browser in the modern context but the GP specifically said “early days of the internet” (which, in fairness, would mean pre-web. But I think it’s safe to assume they meant “web” not Internet).
In those days, it was actually a much simpler exercise to write a browser than it is today. I even wrote one! And writing a browser absolutely teaches you how HTTP and HTML worked. Plus a lot of backed development was forms data sent to CGI and thus written in languages we wouldn’t even dream of using for web development nowadays, including C++.
So in the early web, writing a browser absolutely was a transferable skill. It might not be now, but in the context defined by the GP, it was.
[Blake Ross] worked as an intern at Netscape at the age of 16 ... Ross became disenchanted with the browser he was working on and the direction given to it by America Online, which had recently purchased Netscape. Ross and Hyatt envisioned a smaller, easy-to-use browser that could have mass appeal, and Firefox was born from that idea ... in 2003 all of Mozilla's resources were devoted to the Firefox and Thunderbird projects. Released in November 2004, when Ross was 19, Firefox quickly grabbed market share ... with 100 million downloads in less than a year
Oh hey thank you for that. It really helps. Hope you have your rug pulled from under you today too.
— signed, a career changer trying his best.
Not a lot of demand, but also probably not a lot of supply.
FWIW I built browsers from 1999 for a long time. (But I was never a wunderkind, just somewhat tenaciously curious).
And I guess I am doing fine, but not amazingly rich or so.
Browsers were always a project closer to research/charity. I think Marc Andreessen said something similar - that he would never do that again. B2B is where you can make money.
You don't need your impressive product to succeed to land a good career.
If Alice is doing LLM-from-scratch work today, and Bob is doing agent harness work today, Bob's project is far more likely than Alice's to become useful/popular/profitable.
But if neither project survives, in 5 years, Alice will be more employable/at a higher market rate than Bob.
In general C++ work and similar, if not in Chrome development.
> I’d imagine those teenagers ended up with pretty good careers in technology?
The guy you mentioned doesn't seem to have ended up with a bad career in technology?
Is this the guy you’re talking about?
17 is an interesting age. There are way too many comments here saying things like, 17 year olds should just do whatever seems interesting or bum around the world or focus on getting into university. But historically most kids were expected to be productive adults at 16 or 18. 17 is about the right time to be thinking seriously about what kind of work you'll do, how you'll make a living. University won't help and will just delay this decision.
I contributed to a browser engine around that age (KHTML, which later became WebKit and Blink), and while I don't work in browsers right now, much of that knowledge, mindset and of course the professional network have done much to shape my life. And a fairly successful career, for that matter.
If teenagers could make small contributions to LLMs via open source then sure, go for it. Optimizing llama.cpp or similar would be a good learning project that might later get you good work via social networks. Contributing to open source is how I got started too.
Unfortunately, training LLMs isn't something that fits well to open source open collaboration. Inferencing codebases are better.
In that sense it's more a "seek out the open source community and real projects when young" rather than "do web browsers", with a bit of "look for ambitious types of projects few get to work on".
A lot of people will make better decisions with a few yeas more maturity, and spending a few years developing themselves.
University will help a lot of people, and for some it will help.
There is a lot more to life than making a living.
The early Internet (which the GP mentioned) didn’t even have the web. But that’s nitpicking.
Paradoxically I coded way more between ages 12-14, I regret my wasted late teens.
ages 8-15: lots of great 8-bit computer fun.
ages 15-20: girls, booze, motorcycles.
20 onwards: get a PC, back to computers, realize how much I've been missing.
To be honest, judging by my own kids and their friends, late teens seem to generally be an era of hard to avoid stupidity.
Which is paulg's point really
Jeff Bezos did similar, but he did his own fulfillment and hired out the coding.
Good luck with that approach when trying to toy around with models and their training/inference.
There is also a lot of math basics missing that a 12 year old may be able to grasp, but I would bet they are at least 13 by the time the knowledge is deep enough to understand what operations are happening.
The same is not so different for AI. A few people design novel AI, but there are a lot of people training AI (especially if you include fine tuning) and implementing AI, even as a hobby.
It seems to me like he’s saying that doing this thing would be 1) fun and 2) a great way to become employable in the future. I don’t believe he’s saying that this project would be some kind of job training exercise.
I "guess" you could put all your effort into moving up to the next level in computer science, or you could put the same progressive effort into reaching new levels in video games on the same hardware.
Alternatively you could even put all your effort into social activities and leave the technology to other people entirely.
It might even be possible to find a balance between things that are widely "understood" "socially", and those that are not ;)
But that was way back in the early 1970's and all I had to work with was a mainframe.
Well the mainframe itself wasn't bad, the real show-stopper was that I didn't own the computer outright, no strings attached, no debt, etc.
>I'd probably try to make an LLM that I could use on some specific problem.
I thought so too back then, still do so I guess this is one of those things that could stand the test of time. I always wanted to start with something a lot simpler than a Moon mission myself. At 17 I already had a significant breakthrough in the chem labs and it was from alternatives to a single processing step plus everything that descended from that, rather than trying to tackle a much more complex detailed multi-step synthesis. I was only 17 but I was not trying to be a slouch, I don't think pg was either at that age but his advice is not for just anybody. I couldn't have done it if I hadn't made major progress since being 16, and it really emphasized at the time how much maturity can make a difference. My imagination ran wild as I extrapolated :)
In a reply from LeCun to pg:
>>I'll figure out a set of methods and architectures beyond LLMs that can quickly learn to perform physical tasks as efficiently as humans and animals. That last item is also what I would if I were 30, 40, 50, or 66 years old
I see no reason to stop at 66 either ;)
But I figured that people owning more computer power than I could ever afford were going to be doing something like this as soon as they could, without having to wait for something like an LLM to arrive before getting peoples' attention.
It did seem like things were going to take longer than you expect, so it's pretty good to have a lifetime of concentrating on the specialized natural science domain expertise, focused now for 50 full years on how it would combine if AI ever got good enough.
Both the natural science and the AI need to be a major cut above, I still see dramatic room for improvement in my own work. If I'm going to have to rely on "other peoples' AI" then that natural science component is going to have to pull a lot of weight to keep up with the kind of computers that only rich-as-hell high-rollers have access to.