upvote
I've been thinking about this a fair bit recently.

We make a lot of price/performance compromises for having an attached screen and keyboard on our computer. That was what got me started.

Then I remembered the days of having to go to a special corner of the house to use a computer, vs now when I have a computer with me all the time. In my bag, on the sofa, on the train. Hell, I'm writing this on the work MBP while waiting for an appointment.

And you know what, I think I got more done when I went and sat in a corner of the house all those years ago. I set up an area for "computer work", and it worked really well.

I have a home office, but it's a jumble of cables going into docking stations and all sorts of weird stuff. I think if I streamline it and turn it into a proper "computer room", I might get some of that mojo back. I might even convince my partner that surrendering the home office and having a corner of the den might be good - she can watch TV while I tinker. And I won't be balancing a laptop on my knee and trying to do two things at once.

And the price/performance thing comes back in. Hmm.

reply
There is a definite mental aspect for most WFH folks to having a space that is dedicated to work. I'm not unique in saying this, but the way I put it is "If you work from anywhere in your house, then you're always at work."

And that, from mental load standpoint, is not healthy for most folks.

reply
Or, if you're like me then "if you work from anywhere in your house, then you're never at work."
reply
Or you are always at work.
reply
Or you're never at work, like they said.
reply
But most accurately, they're always at work.
reply
For most people, I'd reckon they are never at work.

There is a reason we know that remote learning is horrible for most people compared to in-classroom. We proved this decisively during COVID.

There is zero reason to believe that most folks magically change overnight from being incapable of remote learning to being highly capable remote workers. It's just not believable.

I hired remote workers in the 90's. It was a small fraction of the total candidate base that could successfully self-motivate and have the discipline to become high performers in such an environment over the long haul. Most of my interviewing and candidate vetting had to do with the remote aspect vs. technical skillset. Luckily around that time is when open source became a huge thing, so those projects presented a pool of pre-vetted candidates to hire out of. The rest of the candidate pool was a total crapshoot.

Remote working has become easier and the tooling and technology much better. But from where I'm standing - many folks do not take it seriously. Simple stuff like having backup Internet is a filtering question for me even today.

reply
“Simple stuff like having backup Internet” that sounds expensive. Who has room to back up the entire Internet?

Personally on the 0.2 days a year I have to worry about it, I just head to the coffee shop. Or you know … take a couple hours off (shock!).

Also I’ve spent literally decades working with very highly productive people exclusively remotely. None of us find this odd. Not sure why you have that level of suspicion/distrust. Granted, things have changed a lot since the 90s.

reply
Backup imternet? Everyone has a cellphone to tether from these days no?
reply
I read it as though he’s “working”, like quiet quitting or something.
reply
On some days I wor from home but need to be present and the sun is out. So I take my laptop outside and work from there. I cannot do this with a desktop. Wouldn‘t the workaholic just stay inside and miss out?
reply
Wireless headphones can get you halfway there if they have enough range for ya to walk around the house a bit. Airpods are quite good for this.
reply
Sometimes I'll just pop into a meeting from my phone and walk around. That said , I do have a laptop but only because I go to the office every so often . Otherwise, I work exclusively from my home office because that's where my home desktop computer is and I control everything on my work computer from there.
reply
Camera on or off?

I love taking meetings while walking but since Covid everyone has their camera on making sedentary meetings mandatory.

reply
There's a lot of value in camera-on, but for some meetings, I love being camera off, nowhere near my computer, somewhere else in the house, watering plants or sweeping the floor. Sometimes it actually has me MORE engaged with the verbal aspect of the meeting, listening better, speaking better, because there's less distraction from Slack and Hacker News...
reply
I've done that, but I chose a Framework Desktop instead. The latest Fedora is closer to Snow Leopard than anything Apple has to offer. Downside is that I still have my MBP because of the lock-in and occasionally pick it up to do computer stuff in weird places.
reply
I got used to the hub-and-spoke model at home (previously thin terminal, server-client, etc.). Big ole desktop/server and smaller devices that (ab)use it remotely. Roam around with a smaller computer/tablet/phone. Tailscale to bind it all together.

If your computing needs line up, it's a very serviceable approach.

reply
Yes, this is my approach now: a home server with devices connected via Tailscale. I'm starting to do more from my phone and less on the laptop.

I haven't added my iPad to the Tailnet yet but i reckon that it could become a very comfortable and productive device for me.

reply
While I do love Fedora, I Wouldn't call it a "Snow Leopard". Around August 5th, there's been numerous regressions when it comes to AMD graphics. First a kernel regression that resulting in artifacts on the desktop. Then a linux-firmware regression with decoding AV1 videos that resulting in 4 prominent columns and constant major color shifts.

Its update policy can result in this sort of regressions in a middle of a release. One thing that's nicer thing about macOS is that a released version doesn't regress as much (even if they are buggier at release; but in that case you can just wait until a later point release to upgrade).

reply
BRING BACK THE COMPUTER ROOM
reply
The wired network connection is just so good.

But the couch is just so comfy.

reply
A fathers gift
reply
We're turning your bedroom back into the computer room
reply
Got my hiking boots ready.
reply
I went some time without a desktop computer at home. The idea was, I have a perfectly good laptop, I'll just connect it with a dock when I want to use a desktop-like device.

Never ended up happening. I didn't get much done at home at all and what I did get done was mostly on the couch; not a great environment for serious work. (I have an office where I do for-profit work so it's not an issue, but still, I like my side projects too)

Eventually I had enough decommissioned computer parts that I could assemble them and re-commission them into a working desktop. So I now have a desktop again. And I actually end up sitting at the desk working on stuff on the desktop in a way I rarely did with the laptop.

reply
As long as we keep going back-and-forth and buying stuff, trying to figure it out, the economy will be in good shape.
reply
I switched back to a desktop tower a few years ago as well. Notably, I don't use external displays with the work-issued laptop, but rather set up the laptop on a stand alongside the dual 1440p displays and have synergy for mouse and keyboard sharing.
reply
Is there an option to "use the remote computer just as it was local" even between two Macs? Sure, terminal/ssh is enough for most use-cases, but this is something I expected from Apple as builtin.

I can tailscale into my home network, but what next? VNC/TeamViewer/Remote Desktop setups are all mediocre imho.

reply
Apple screen sharing works for me just fine. Matter of fact I have been driving a mac mini with it from my laptop most of the time now and just ordered a mac studio to replace the mac mini. I think powerful headless desktops are the future.
reply
I'm writing this right now connected to my Mac Mini from my "thin client" M1 MacBook Air. Screen sharing is pretty seamless nowadays, particularly if you're on a local LAN (although it works pretty well over Tailscale as well if the WiFi is strong enough).

If you haven't tried Screen Sharing since they deprecated VNC and switched to their proprietary H.264-based protocol, its worth trying. Even YouTube videos play just fine with no noticeable lag.

reply
Thanks! I didn't even know this existed!! :o
reply
I find Jump Desktop to be excellent. One time payment. Can connect from iPhone / iPad, too. A noticeable step up from Screen Sharing (which can’t be used from mobile device anyway). Can’t recall it ever failing to connect or flaking out as so many RDP setups seem to.
reply
I once tinkered with the game streaming set up available via Steam, so I could do it in a way where it streamed the normal complete desktop setup. I used it to operate my desktop from the laptop.

It worked relatively well, but wasn't perfect. It was as close to what you're describing as I've seen, though. This was a few years ago; something like this might work even better now.

reply
Well, there used to be nxhosting back in the NeXT days, which I _really_ miss.

Unfortunately, it relied on Display PostScript and Quartz née Display PDF isn't architected to allow that sort of remote display/access on a per application level.

reply
Apple Remote Desktop is very usable. I have a headless mini and have managed to fool myself about which machine I’m on, over WiFi.
reply
What are you using to connect to the headless mini to use as a primary?
reply
I’m on a MacBook Pro. Using a combo of Terminal, Apple Remote Desktop or Screen Sharing (from desktop, command K, VNC://<IP> then connect.

It’s pretty good.

To be clear, it’s not ever supposed to be a primary. It just becomes one from time to time when I make it full screen and am not paying attention.

reply
Unfortunately there is nothing that works as nicely as Windows Remote Desktop. Probably the best option is various commercial offerings as Apple Remote Desktop is rather buggy and unstable.
reply
Astropad Workbench
reply
To me the idea of working on (non-docked) laptop always seemed like an idea that you would do only if there is no other possible way.

Screen is small and is only one. Ergonomics is entirely messed up. Either your screen is too low, or your keyboard is too high. Keyboards are non-ergonomic and have to be made with compromises due to height limits. Touchpad instead of mouse/trackball is compromise for many - and also stuck at one position.

And yet they have somehow spread despite number of people going on business trips not really increasing.

reply
You can dock your laptop at work, then dock it at home, take it with you to a meeting room at work to browse supplemental materials and/or project your screen n the meeting, and use it for the occasional trip (like using it on the train to work).

It's not like you have to be on a plane for the portability to be useful.

reply
It sounds like you don't code much in bed or with your feet up.

A laptop is a distinct tool from a desktop and if you try to use it like a desktop, I agree it is a terrible substitute. Personally I find laptops vastly more ergonomic than a desktop, but I never program with my feet on the ground.

reply
> code much in bed

I've found my smartphone's the best device for that. I wrote an entire programming language using my phone.

Been trying to make a handheld cyberdeck to replace the phone with something better, but it's still a long way from being real.

reply
every time i try to 'streamline the computer setup' i get reminded that losing 'the desk' was the worst part / saddest moment
reply
Man I did exactly this with the PC I built last April, it was the best decision ever. I love having a dedicated space with a huge tower running everything. Two big monitors mounted to the back of the desk on arms, huge mechanical keyboard in the middle with a big ergonomic mouse pad and hand shoe mouse.

It’s a whole “thing” when I go to the computer now. And frankly, it’s made it way more fun to use. It’s kind of like enjoying the process of listening to vinyl rather than pulling up a song on Spotify

reply
I have exactly this setup and use a Macbook Air with Tailscale to just connect via High Performance Screen Sharing both at home and on the go (when not sitting at my desk, I move around a lot around the house after 3pm or so while I keep my workflow identical)

HPSS works well via 5G, and Tailscale is incredible for the setup as much as the hardware.

Edit: I ended up getting a 15" M5 Air but honestly trying it on a 13" M4 Air was actually superior because when all you care is mobility (since the Studio does the heavy work) its nice just going around with almost no weight / bulk.

reply
I almost forgot that HPSS was a thing, thanks for the reminder.

https://support.apple.com/en-my/guide/remote-desktop/apdf8e0...

reply
Having replaced my MacBook with a Mac Mini, I would reconsider. The MacBook is just such a _complete_ package. Great speakers, great keyboard, fantastic screen, the fingerprint sensor thingy.. Takes a lot of gear to match that
reply
I thought the question was low-end MacBook + mini vs high-end MacBook. The low-end one has all those nice things. I wouldn't sacrifice that. If it has to be MacBook + super old used mini as home server, so be it.
reply
Except for LLM inference speed, macs suck as a server and are pretty expensive, why wouldn't you get a Linux box?
reply
My Mac mini m1 is a fantastic home server.

Years ago I realized running a 100W PC all the time was REALLY expensive, so I switched to an old linux laptop at 30W (about $4/month). That helped, but I moved to the m1 mac specifically for the power efficiency. It does all the things my linux server did, and it does them at 6W (75¢/month).

I've found no competitor with similar performance that can run in such a low power footprint. M4 mini's are way better at power/performance, and I imagine their price is about to come way down since the M6 mini just got announced.

Software-wise, it's different, but mostly equivalent. Homebrew or macports has a similar software inventory to debian. And Apple's container framework is a welcome improvement over colima for running most container workloads.

reply
My home server is an ASUS NUC 14 Essential which idles at 5W with a bunch of services running. Its peak performance is probably less than the Mac Mini, but the hardware is cheap (at least it was before RAM/storage got expensive) and it’s a great platform to run Linux on.
reply
NUC is good too. Having x86 is surprisingly important in Linux.
reply
It takes almost 8 years for $3.25/mo of electricity savings to break even with a $300 difference in up front cost. Assuming the time value of money is zero, that is.
reply
Yeah, the reality is you never break even. It's only a thing if the two options are similar pricing.
reply
That too, it's either Mac mini or Rpi if you care about power, and the Rpi is very limited.
reply
Buying a Mac specifically for serving is misguided in nearly all use cases, but as an all-in-one solution they make sense. Personally I feel like the number of boxes I need to manage has an inverse correlation to my happiness.

Macs are totally “fine” for light server duty… as is just about any computer of the last decade+. The CPUs are beasts, the disks are screaming fast.

The operating system itself may not be ideal at serving but you can just run Docker/Orbstack if you need to do something especially Linux-y.

I’d put the question back on you — what are scenarios where an Apple Silicon Mac wouldn’t cut it as a light server for one person or a handful of people? About the only scenario that comes to mind is scenarios where you expect to utilize it so heavily that the fans are running for many hours a day. At some point those are either gonna wear out or just ingest so much dust that the machine runs hotter and needs a deep clean. But even that is largely mitigated by just pointing an external fan at it.

reply
Because it's not exactly a server, more like a home PC / dev machine that I also remote into. Usually SSHing but sometimes VNC which is annoying in Linux. And the Mac mini is pretty fast. Yes a Linux box would win in terms of multicore CPU(?) or GPU if you need to run big batch processes, or a high-uptime service. My work is running those on cloud, not in my house.
reply
If your computer never leaves your desk, the iMac is pretty competitive with those features. Even comes with a TouchID keyboard.
reply
I’ve had iMacs for almost 20 years. My last one was indeed my last. Without target display mode (use the Mac as a monitor), I’m ditching a perfectly good monitor. I was going to buy a Mac Studio and a good monitor to replace the iMac until the spouse reminded me that we are now retired and will spend time in a camper. So a MBP for me (and BenQ’s Mac-specific monitor), but others might do well to consider a Mac Mini/Studio.

iMacs are great for a lot of use cases, but my image of the typical HN user would prefer to keep the monitor separate.

reply
It's like, you pay laptop prices for laptop performance but without laptop portability or desktop modularity. This only sorta made sense back when Apple had no "prosumer" desktop offering unless you wanted a cheap used Mac Pro (which is what I ended up doing at some point).
reply
deleted
reply
Not an option if you're trying to drive 3 decent screens.
reply
My M1 Pro drives 4 screens no problem. The trick is that you can only attach two through one Thunderbolt port, so you have to attach the 3rd one via the other port instead of your dock. (The 4th screen is the laptop's built in screen)
reply
I've been away from Macs (2015 MBP and an M1 Pro) for a while now, but they used to have a limitation of one screen per port. Apparently driver related as according to my faulty memory a Linux install didn't have the same issue.

Are you using Apple displays or did they fix it?

reply
They must have fixed it because I drive my two main monitors from a dock connected to one port and then my 3rd monitor from the other port. Been set up this way for at least two years now.
reply
I've been away for about 3 years now. My thunderbolt dock couldn't drive two monitors from my Macs, and I couldn't daisy chain display ports either. A Linux ThinkPad had no problem though. Glad they've finally fixed (implemented) it.
reply
Note that modern Macbook Pros can drive crazy screens.

A Macbook Pro M4 or M5 drives TWO of these at once, well, for equivalent of quad 4K configured as dual super ultrawides:

https://www.samsung.com/us/monitors/gaming/57-inch-odyssey-n...

Per Apple support page, MBP with M5 Max handles:

Two external displays

Two displays up to a native resolution of 8K (7680 x 4320) at 60Hz, 5K (5120 x 2880) at 120Hz, or 4K (3840 x 2160) at 240Hz over Thunderbolt or HDMI

Three external displays

Two displays up to a native resolution of 6K (6144 x 3456) at 60Hz or 4K (3840 x 2160) at 144Hz; plus one display up to a native resolution of 8K (7680 x 4320) at 60Hz, 5K (5120 x 2880) at 120Hz or 4K (3840 x 2160) at 240Hz over Thunderbolt or HDMI

Four external displays

Four displays up to a native resolution of 6K (6144 x 3456) at 60Hz or 4K (3840 x 2160) at 144Hz over Thunderbolt or HDMI

https://support.apple.com/en-us/101571

PS. Use TB4 or TB5 dock from Cal-Digit (match the TB version of your mac), or this or one of the rebranded versions of the same OEM: https://www.owc.com/solutions/thunderbolt-dock, or an Ivanky Fusion dock if you want to go nuts with up to SIX displays, Quad 6K@60Hz and Dual 4K@60Hz:

https://www.amazon.com/Thunderbolt-Monitor-Docking-Station-A...

reply
I do remember the M1 chips being uniquely capable in this aspect compared to later chips but when I say decent displays I meant 3x 120hz 4k screens with HDR on at least one.

Last year when I was browsing the only recentish Apple silicon capable of driving that was the M3 Ultra.

reply
Keyword is pro. Non-pro chips drive fewer screens unless you use DisplayLink. Which I did at some point, it's a hack but ok for lighter usage.
reply
Yes but if your debate is desktop or laptop, you're probably not looking at anything but a pro.
reply
Uh idk, I have a desktop and laptop that are both base. The laptop is an M4 Air which is overall faster than M1 Pro, especially single-core where it's even faster than M3 Max.
reply
Macbook (base) yes, but my MBP (M3 Max) is driving 4 screens for me without issue.
reply
Honestly the screens become more of a liability than an asset to me past 2 (including the laptop screen). I've tried. Even if I'm knee deep in work and have like 4 servers I'm monitoring, my eyes are only going to look at one screen at a time, so it's just extra window management and eye/head/mouse movement to have more screens.
reply
Why not a non-mac cheaper desktop/workstation and a Mac laptop for use?

E.g. what most major tech companies have - a laptop that is for VSCode via ssh/web browsing, and a beefy Linux dev box you ssh into for everything else?

It's way cheaper, and what I use at home too - a lot cheaper than a Mac studio for everything, especially with RAM and storage.

reply
if you do want to do local LLM stuff, mac studio is significantly better than most linux dev boxes.
reply
As of a year ago, the strix halo AMD (system on chip, unified ram) was within single digit percentages of the mac, but it’s a linux box, so much better for most dev and as an llm server.

I know AMD has announced the replacement, and it will be faster, but I’m not sure when it’ll ship.

Also, you can cluster strix halo if you need more than 128GB of ram.

reply
For specifically unified memory reasons, Apple machines are much, much better at running local LLMs.
reply
A lot more upgradable too. Those empty DRAM slots can get populated one day!
reply
The unified memory is the big appeal of a beefy Mac Studio
reply
Yes, and..

Just Tailscale into the Studio from iPad Pro 13" with magic keyboard and Kit Knox's rootshell:

https://github.com/kitknox/rootshell

Note that the iPad Pro can also drive a 4K second screen if you like, and most anything else a Macbook with a single port could drive.

Why not Macbook Air? Because the iPad Pro is also a tablet, touch screen, and 5G...

reply
this is exactly my setup! the ipad pro 11 m5 cellular is such an amazing device especially with the 5G. only downside is obv the iPadOS, it's still very limiting and shortcuts and power tools (like easily prefilling passwords) are non-existent. for passwords, you still have to manually click the pre-fill and/or enable full keyboard to be able to tab into it but still annoying.
reply
Slightly off-topic: I decided to go with a Mac Mini to start playing with AI. My daily driver is a Linux laptop (with a negligible GPU). I also have a few Raspberry Pi machines for backup, and a low-end AWS server.

I was always cobbling together ad hoc network access, to get from one machine to another. Access to my Mac Mini while traveling was a pain. Bringing it with me is ridiculous, and network access was a PITA.

Tailscale is wonderful magic. Free (for my usage), so easy to set up, and now no matter where my various computers are, they are all accessible trivially via a single ssh connection.

So get a beefed up desktop Mac, set up Tailscale, and then use any random laptop, anywhere, to use it headless.

reply
My goto. Even ignoring speed, it's nice to have a remote machine that keeps doing whatever it's doing while your laptop is closed. And the ARM Macs idle at such low power that it's not wasteful like my MacPro4,1 was haha. My UPS's ammeter doesn't even display the Mac mini's draw.

They gave me a nice MBP for my new job. I tried doing heavy work on it locally, it was fine for that, and yet it still ended up being a light terminal into an EC2 instance, partially because their stuff is on AWS and latency is way lower within that. My personal mini is running too.

reply
> not that Apple prices weren’t insane before the ram/ssd shortages

Funny that after the price started to increase last year (I think October/November), there was a window of a few months where Apple prices stayed the same as they were before, thus making apple prices actually good when compared to the rest of the market.

It was a unique opportunity to have acquired a 512G M3 ultra for $10k.

reply
not as crazy a config, but I got a 128GB M5max the day before the price increase for $2K less. still proud of the call to buy it.
reply
Also proud of having spent $2.5k on a used 128G M1 Ultra back in September 2024.

Despite being outdated in terms of compute, it stills let me run very good recent models locally, with Deepseek V4 Flash 0731 being the greatest one right now, and hopefully Qwen 3.8 Flash will also fit well when it is released tomorrow!

The M1 ultra definitely leaves to be desired in terms of its token speeds, but I think 20 tps generation and ~200 tps prompt processing (which is what I get with DSv4 flash), is already enough to do a lot of serious work when you combine with the decent prompt caching provided by llama.cpp.

reply
You're killing me here lol
reply
I dusted of my lightest computer with an M1 chip and use Tailscale to make my network virtual from anywhere. Been running a. Pi5 as a main house hub and an M1 Pro as an always on Mac. It would be nice to go all out and make a Studio a hub I can just screen share into for major compute.
reply
I had the same thought, I grabbed a studio two years ago for this reason and it’s been great. 99% of the time lack of portability isn’t a concern. Every now and then (e.g. travel) I notice the limitation, but it’s not much of an inconvenience to just not do some work for a bit.
reply
Plus remote work is getting easier and easier. There are so few instances when I'm not able to get online. If we lived in a world where hardware were getting cheaper, it might make sense to splurge. In this environment I think the Neo is perfect.
reply
Build quality of the Neo is extremely good, I love the keyboard — it’s more tactile and reminds me of early 2010s MacBooks.

I’ll be selling my M4 MBA soon, I genuinely use the Neo more. Huge difference in typing experience.

Great repairability is a plus. It was super easy, and actually fun to open. Felt like unboxing an Apple product. Applied the thermal paste mod for $10 which works excellently; I’ve had it shortly after launch.

And I love the notchless display, even if I wished the color gamut was a bit better.

reply
The Neo keyboard just feels nicer than even an M5 Air.
reply
I have a Mac Studio M2 Max as my main driver. It's fantastic. I will get the best M5 Studio I can afford when the higher RAM options come out because I am very involved with local inference. I find that with Tailscale I can either use screen sharing if I've got a good enough internet connection or just SSH and Mosh if it's a little bit laggy. That has been good enough for me. A Mac Studio and a Neo as a companion is a really good combination. My laptop is an Apple M4 Air but it basically does nothing except for running ScreenShare and a terminal.
reply
Another option is a 'maxed out' mini e.g M5 Pro/64GB. Mini is super easy to travel with if you know there'll be a 'dock' at the far end e.g office<>home or whatever.
reply
So I can somewhat speak to this, as I actually did this for a while c. 2021 and 2022.

The issue (apart from my Mac mini still having the old, bigger form factor back then) is that this requires a full shutdown (obviously), and that is more friction than opening a closed laptop lid. It just takes a moment for every app and background service etc. to settle back in after, and depending on how your brain works, you might not like that a whole lot.

It absolutely is a cool feeling to carry a pretty mighty desktop in the backpack, though.

reply
> that this requires a full shutdown

The mini sips a truly tiny amount of power. I wonder what the smallest/lightest UPS could could bundle it with would be.

But at this point.. you’ve got a shit laptop.

reply
I think it's actually good to have a forced reboot from time to time, but then I'm not very disciplined in closing stuff I'm no-longer using! Especially like docker containers I was using months ago, that I forgot to shutdown.
reply
Yeah, I agree (with the same unfortunate habit) – but up to twice a day of forced work full stop is overdoing it, too.
reply
Is there no hibernation option ?
reply
You don't get the option in the UI: there's just "Sleep", which on a desktop Mac seems to suspend to RAM only. At least, it seems to on mine, as I found out when I unplugged it.

(Apparently the laptops do a suspend to disk depending on battery remaining, so the OS does support it. It'd be nice to have it available! The disk space required could become annoying if you only bought the 1 TB SSD for your fancy 512 GB Mac though.)

reply
Pretty sure hibernation is dead. Deep sleep states use such nominal power, I think they decided it wasn't worth it.
reply
I did this for a few years, going further back in time.

The shutdown thing didn't bother me, and in fact the Mini was lighter than a Macbook Air at the time. So all in all it was pretty convenient.

reply
What if you have some battery system working? Then technically, you could travel with it
reply
At that point you lose too much convenience. Maybe if someone built a mini UPS with at least 10000Ah capacity, USB-C 4 pass-through and the right form factor to permanently attach it on top of the mini.
reply
And imagine plugging a small iPad screen into the thing with sidecar… Almost like a Macbook!
reply
A part of my brain can’t process acquiring a Mac Mini M5 Pro knowing that they sell M6 despite being aware that it is just a weaker processor.

It will get worse with the MacBook ultra rocking a M5 too.

Apple’s marketing department is gonna kill me.

reply
Think about it maybe like:

I want a 2026 pickup truck. The dealer also sells a 2027 hatchback.

I am not shopping for a hatchback.

reply
I've been using the free version of TailScale to use macOS's built-in screen sharing app to use my home Mac mini from my work MacBook Pro. Works great! That combined with ChatGPT/Codex's "remote" feature is an amazing combination. I think you'd be totally fine with a Mac Studio + Neo.
reply
I have been considering this.

I bought a Macbook Air in the interm waiting to see what the Macbook Ultra looks like, but honestly—it's the best form factor ever. I love it! Even though it's only like a pound heavier, the Pro feels like a monster.

Thinking about getting a Mini or Studio with more horsepower to stay at home.

Any other apps or suggestions? I'm still not exactly sure what working this way looks like.

reply
I would not use Neo, Air with 24 GB ram should be your minimum because you will want to do some work locally even when you're running a VPN/SSH thin client setup.

I'm currently SSH-ing into my workstation from my M4 Air with 24 gb ram and it's ideal for this flow. Slack/editors/clients/browsers/etc. easily gobble up over 16 GB. I have no more dev tools/compilers/source on my client machines, everything is dockered up on remote workstation in isolated VMs (too much supply-chaining).

My only downside to using a pro is not having 120/4k HDMI port on air and my dock won't support it with Apple (it does with windows)

reply
It heavily depends on your workflow and how many (electron) programs you need to run simultaneously. I found that if I’m mindful of closing things I’m not actually using, and let macOS do its swap magic, the Neo will just work.

I’m also the kind of person who close tabs and I like to work on one task at a time.

reply
Can that run qwen? Also can you explain what you meant by the downside ?
reply
If I was going to run LLMs locally I would definitely go for a pro.

I meant the only downside of not using a pro for my use-case is that I don't have a HDMI port on device with high refresh rate. I have a decent dock that can give me 4k/60hz HDMI but not 120hz refresh for macs (it works on windows). It's a minor thing but having 120hz is nice when I'm docked at home.

reply
I've been holding out, because I think my next purchase will be a Studio with an Ultra Chip in it. I'm wanting it to be a "forever" server, so I'm holding out while I can.
reply
If running LLMs locally matters, it’s hard to imagine a “forever machine” existing in anything less than 5-10 years, probably more. This stuff is just evolving so rapidly. Buying a “forever machine” today might be like buying a “forever GPU” in 2003.
reply
Supply rumours are next year we see an M7 AI-focused chip with large inference performance upgrades. It's unlikely we'll see heavy upgrades in other areas. If you care about AI, it's worth waiting. If you don't, pull the trigger now. RAM constraints are likely to get worse next year. Or wait 2-3 years and prices should be back to Earth (plus newer and even better chips).

I'm waiting this out.

reply
Yeah, but how many years until 128GB+ is attainable by mere mortals again? My 2021 home server build was 64GB of RAM. My 2025 build was 32GB and zram. :/
reply
My desktop with 64gb of RAM has been my best performing financial asset. The value keeps rising.
reply
Then you'll always be waiting, there's always something new the industry tries to tempt you with.
reply
I just wait for a cycle or two where the leaps and bounds are more like hops and steps. So if the M7 Ultra improves inference by 2x over the M5, but the M9 Ultra only improves by 1.2x over the M7, that's my signal to buy. Unfortunately they haven't slowed down yet.
reply
Buy in 2 years, or buy now and have it last 2 years less than forever.
reply
>I do wonder if my next computer should be a Mac Studio instead of a MBP that lives its life docked.

Having owned 3 MacBook Pros since 2008, the decision to make my next computer be a Mac Studio came down to (1) MacBook thermal throttling that slows down CPUs when it starts to overheat and (2) easier upgrade of Mac Studio SSD with after-market storage module whereas the MacBook requires more complicated disassembly and hot air gun to dislodge the surface mounted SSDs.

I have a brand new M5 Pro MacBook Pro I don't like it when the fans turn on. The Mac Studio will be faster and quieter for the same workloads.

reply
You don't want a computer that does thermal throttling but also do not like it when the fans turn on?
reply
>but also do not like it when the fans turn on?

Sorry for not being clearer. I don't like the MacBook's noise when the fans turn on.

The Mac Studio has bigger heat sinks to delay the need for thermal management -- and if its fan does need to turn on, the bigger size means it's still silent instead of the high-pitched whooshing noise the tiny fans make in the MacBook.

reply
You can get large under-laptop cooling pads with giant fans that can help this somewhat. It's not part of the laptop, but help if it's docked at home. It's not totally ideal since the bottom of your laptop doesn't have radiator fins, but does help.
reply
M4 Max Studio + Macbook Air. I've been running this for several years. Mac is a really poor server environment and none of the apple ecosystem makes up for it. So, I still prefer my linux server, but the M4 Max is much more suited for inference tasks so here it is. I wouldn't say it's much better than a MBP except the sustained throughput is much higher and the fan noise is barely noticeable. I'd get a linux equivalent if there was one.
reply
YMMV, but when I got my iPad I realized that my "mobile" needs were only contempt consumption and my MBP was used as a desktop computer connected to a 32'' monitor. So every time I renewed my laptop the expensive screen went with it, and I had to pay for another one that I would be using as a second screen!

Thus, my current workhorse is a Studio.

reply
I almost bought a studio a couple years ago, but I was starting a PhD and so I figured I had to prioritize MBP.

These prices make that decision so bittersweet. I feel so shut out from being able to use AI as economic productivity without being able to take on debt for a local-inf capable mac studio

reply
Last year I was able to justify a 128GB/1TB M4 Max Studio for 4600€. This cycle's M5 Max with 128GB/1TB goes for 6219€. The M5 has to be obviously a better machine, but it's now above the price point I would pull the trigger for. Guess I got lucky in the futureproofing lottery this time, anyway.
reply
> I realized that my "mobile" needs were only contempt consumption

Is that the new phrase for social media? I hope it is...

reply
My contempt consumption is reading feeds, books and sheet music, and some casual games...

... and a lot more social media I'd like to admit.

reply
I wonder if apple could or would offer a subscription for a OSX VM that you could remote into? That plus a neo would be an excellent combo for me
reply
I used laptops for years.

However, after retiring, I realized I never undocked my MBP.

So I got an M4Pro Mini, and I've been thrilled. If I ever get to where I travel a lot, again, I'll get a laptop, but I don't see a need, right now.

reply
I got an M1 Max studio w/ 64gb when they first came out and I love it. Price was obviously a lot more reasonable at the time. I’m fortunate to have dedicated office space, and there is definitely a nice psychological effect to having a desktop in a specific spot and “going to the office”. I’ve since purchased an m3 MacBook Air as my thin client and for lightweight travel use, and when my wife needs to take a call in the office or whatever I pop out to the living room and either hop on Remote Desktop or SSH into my Studio. Highly recommend this setup. If you’re primarily doing thin client on a local network, a neo should be fine for that (and to use as a media player/communicator around the house). That said, I have been eyeballing Omarchy…
reply
I’ve debated Mac Studio or MBP at each generation. For equal spec machines the price premium to get a MBP over the Studio is always smaller than I expected, so I pay the extra amount and get the MBP.

This changes when you get into connotations that aren’t available in the laptop form factor, but with RAM prices the way they are those configurations are more than I want to spend on a local machine right now.

For running local LLMs the high memory Mac options always look appealing, but the processing speed (prefill) is so much slower than GPUs that it hurts. For situations where you have no rush and can let something work in the background for 24 hours it can some times be ignored, but the speeds I get from a real GPU setup are so much faster that I never use the larger models on a high memory Mac any more.

reply
This is my setup (except I have an Air because the Neo didn't exist yet). And it's great. Tailscale makes it trivial.
reply
So, do you use VNC (or ssh) to access the Mac Studio at home? Or do you only access other stuff that's living in your home network?
reply
not OP but tailscale ssh does the trick for me.
reply
ssh in terminal and/or through VS Code. When needed, I also use Apple's Screen Sharing app.
reply
deleted
reply
I can't really imagine buying a new computer in this market. But I also wonder how long it will be before prices drop again, if ever.
reply
Oh you will be imagining some time soon.
reply
I've been running a desktop Mac in addition to MacBook and iPad for the past decade (currently a first gen Studio still holding quite strong). It's primarily a focus thing, secondarily it's a way to keep work happening locally while I'm elsewhere, and never have the frustrations of docking and screen geometries all re-arranging, etc. The iPad is at the opposite extreme, it's for recreation, burn out management. The MacBook exists for when I actually need to do "real work" outside of the house.
reply
At my current job, one of my biggest blunders was thinking "Let me just order the same hardware as most of my teammates to avoid unnecessary complications".

Most, if not all, of our current work happens on remote cloud vms. Now I'm stuck with carrying a 3KG monstrosity to work.Every day.

Absolutely no positives compared to my ThinkPad that weighed less than half in my previous job.

Remote development is "good enough" these days. With VS Code, Development containers etc... Having a light weight, portable laptop is so much nicer than a laptop that you can't even rest on your lap for long duration.

The only thing you need to be mindful of using light weight laptops is not having enough RAM to fit all your browser tabs..

reply
I totally agree I use containers through propelcode.app which means I can code on any device including my phone and the environment is the same as the server target. It’s even more important with agents that can delete files and change OS settings. I never need to worry that a coding session ends up breaking my main OS environment by deleting or changing a file.
reply
Yeah I stepped down to a smaller MBP. the only reason I didn't go for an air is my home setup with dual monitors involves using the HDMI port. There probably is a dock or something out there though.
reply
I’m in the same camp as you. I’ve just decided that the M5 Ultra is gonna be my next machine. Plus an Air for the few times when I need a computer on the go. I’m invested in Tailscale already so an ubiquitous Studio Ultra seems like a sweet idea
reply
I have been thinking a lot about buying a very fast desktop and a cheap laptop that uses remote desktop to connect to the fast computer.

But in the end I ended op buying a Lenovo Legion and put Linux on it.

Laptops are so fast these days that I didn't want to be bothered with setting up connectivity to a remote desktop.

But if your laptop never leaves your desk I think a desktop computer is a great option. Relatively cheaper and easier to maintain and upgrade.

reply
Recently took a Minisforum 7840hs PC out of rotation as a media PC and made it a full time coding workstation with Proxmox. I do a VM per project due to the nature of agentic editors.

I was using a VM setup on my MBP but it felt like a huge waste, having to leave a laptop on 24/7 when all it did was run Claude Code inside VMs.

I likely will stick with a Macbook Air 15" for next purchase, and beef up my "Claude Server" down the road.

reply
Yeah, I have an MBP for Reasons, but it sits docked 90% of the time. I'd rather spend the engineering budget on better thermals and more ports; I always have it plugged into a fixed monitor and other peripherals.
reply
If all you want to do is remote into your desktop, Neo seems like overkill. Why not just get a $200 Chromebook and save yourself $500?
reply
Because who hates themselves that much? It's the thing I touch and interact with. That's exactly the part that needs to be sturdy, smooth, and pretty. It's the facade to the beast at the other end.
reply
Because the screen, keyboard, and especially trackpad on a $200 Chromebook sucks?
reply
Also it'll be truly too slow. You need to at least be able to access a shared document while a video call is going.

The funniest recurring thing when working at Google was new hires getting baited into taking a Chromebook, then not being able to switch to a Mac for like 2 years. Our team made sure new people didn't fall for that.

reply
Also: the enclosure, and the hinges.
reply
Also remoting into a Mac sucks on anything that isn't a Mac. It runs like shit when using any VNC client that isn't Apple's.
reply
This comment got me curious, so I searched for cheap laptops with mobile internet. There's at least one LTE Chromebook now for about 300 euros. This might be my next laptop if it can run Tailscale and remote desktop.
reply
I used to have a high-powered laptop, but just use a combination of ssh and NFS to my machine at home from a low powered laptop for travel these days. It works well.

Makes managing both backups and handling failure scenarios involving loss or unauthorised access to the laptop less of a hassle as well.

reply
Yep, this is my exact thought. The pendulum has swung back toward a desktop making more sense for me than a laptop. It all depends on whether there is anything useful to do with an amount of computation that can't be fit into a laptop package. For a long time there wasn't, now there is.
reply
I had the same view recently. For the past year I’ve been using my iPad to remote into both my MacBook Pro M1 Max and my racked Linux workstation at home using Jump and moonlight/sunshine, respectively. Never looked back
reply
That’s nearly what I do but on a smaller scale. My iPad Pro serves as my laptop 90% of the time, and the 10% of the time I need to actually code and test in a chromium browser I remote into a mini.
reply
I’ve wanted the idea of a home server or even home “mainframe” and some terminals for me and family forever but the idea never takes off….
reply
Same. For me, it’s one of those “solutions in search of a problem.”
reply
It just seems somewhat more efficient to take all the computing storage, memory processes, processors, or at least all the money that go into it… the in one spot.

If you’re running a big task or small, everything scales to the appropriate size, regardless of the hardware sitting on your lap or under your desk.

At least that’s how I think of it.

reply
> I do wonder if my next computer should be a Mac Studio

Would you get away with a Mini?

reply
How about business where you send in all your old devices and get back a SSD using using their memories
reply
If it's your remote-in laptop, I'd suggest getting a used MacBook Pro or Air with an M series processor in your preferred 13/15" size and memory/storage configuration. You can get a used MacBook Air M3 with 16GB of RAM for about the same price as a MacBook Neo. It'll have similar single core, GPU, and NPU performance as the Neo and about 38% better multi-core performance. Plus you'll have 16GB of RAM for future-proofing and apps. And you can spend a bit less if you want or a bit more depending on what you need. You could get a used MacBook Air M1 8GB for under $400.
reply
Im writing this from a MacBook Air.

Everything is a container or VM now, and none of it runs locally for me.

I have a desktop (older intel) with giant monitors and a keyboard for when I sit at the desk. I have the laptop for when I travel, go out or just want to work from the couch.

When I do my next upgrade to "better hardware" I'm not migrating a machine, rather I'm migrating the containers. My workflow is such that if I loose one of the boxes I sit at to a cup of coffee I really wont care other than the financial loss of a new laptop or keyboard.

The biggest win in all this was dumping the off the shelf firewall/router and moving to Opnsense. Wireguard vpn lets me route all my traffic through home for all my devices (and what is now a growing home lab).

There are scopes of work that this setup would not work for. I would not want to be a video editor with this set up, it's not ideal if you want to play AAA games. But for what I do, it is pretty ideal.

reply
Cheap Linux laptop with Tailscale back into the Studio when traveling?
reply
No iTerm2, weird shortcuts, random issues in video calls?, also not really cheap to get a laptop that reliably works with Linux and has decent battery life
reply
Oh yeah. Throw it behind tailscale. Herdr multiplexer in terminal is cool, it’ll remember your session if you open it in ssh from the neo
reply
Happy with M4 Mini, although I recommend using a well ventilated M.2 enclosure instead of the integrated docks as I just had a 2TB Kingston die which I'm pretty sure was caused by "zero thermal forks given (chopsticks only)" UGreen hub design. Also can use as a laptop and replace screen/keyboard/whatever when failed/unsuitable. Higher resulting device longevity, especially with Asahi Linux making such great progress. https://github.com/vk2diy/hackbook-m4-mini
reply
Yes, except that the only way to get a fancy screen is also to put the fancy cpu in it. If there would be an Air with the screen of the pro I would buy it. Maybe even a Neo with that screen.
reply
I’m doing essentially this, and got a MacBook Neo.

Fir kinda the first time in my life I don’t really have development tools on my personal laptop. I ghostty and openvpn client installed.

I have a large remote linux workstation (2x 8c/16t xeon cpus, 256gb ram, 2x8tb spinning rust disk) and i have my tools over there (along with some VMs).

It works surprisingly well.

Also, the macbook neo is a surprisingly capable little machine.

reply
For a desktop you may find yourself better on a Linux or Windows machine price/performance wise.

I personally own an M3 ultra, an M1 max as laptops, but my desktop is a Ryzen desktop I built in 2022 and it was a third in price of the ultra for more power.

reply
Do it! I went with the Mini/Neo combo. I don't need MBP power when out and about. When at home, the Mini is all I use.
reply
I was in the same situation, I used maxed out 15'' M3 Max MacBook Pro docked to Studio Display closed on vertical stand behind the screen. It was fine for office work, but running local LLMs would definitely overheat it. The battery started degrading purely due to heat issues. And it was audible as well.

I decided to get Mac Studio M4 Max, also all maxed out config and the cooling is so much better that I can run local LLMs like Gemma 3/4, gpt-oss 120b all day long without any heat issues or any audible fan noise. So for my use case it was the right decision. I subsequently added 15'' M5 Max MacBook Pro all maxed out to my collection and even though it is slightly faster on LLM inference (I get 100 tokens/s with Gemma 4 27b model), you just can't run LLMs longer than a few minutes. It starts overheating and gets really loud.

reply
Weird, I’ve run LLM batch sessions for hours on my Max M3 MBP. It doesn’t get very loud, though I’m not getting anything close to 100 tok/s on a 27b model, I use a 35b MoE model just to get 90 tok/s. The fan comes on but thermally it never overheats. I do have it in a vertical closed position, though.
reply
That’s what I have been doing for years, it remains in the house secured while I ssh into it from an old thinkpad. You can get air to pair it with it if you really wanna have that seamless flow, otherwise, ssh works well.
reply
<deleted>
reply
I can't wait for an actual competitor to the M chips from apple. It's frustrating.
reply
What CPU / GPU combination would you recommend? Can use unified host+device memory?
reply
I'd never go x86 again after owning an m1. I'd have replaced an x86 laptop 2 or 3 times by now (2020 m1). My last $3500 dell xps 13z before buying the m1 was absolutely horrible.
reply
Apple prices have always been insane, there is a reason why during the days it almost went bankrupt, in Europe it could not rival with PC, Amiga, Atari, Acorn.
reply
Laptops can't do agentic engineering. They get hot as hell and battery drains instantly. I think this will promote a switch to desktops for the next couple of years, until we have new mobile chips.
reply
But laptops can remote into boxes that can run agents.

So a combination of a powerful desktop and a "cheap" laptop might indeed be attractive.

reply
Are you referring specifically to agentic engineering with locally hosted models?
reply