It is fraud.
> It doesn't account for the substance or quality of their work at all.
References are part of the work. If you're making up the references, what else are you making up?
> People make mistakes and a good fraction of them can learn from those mistakes. There's no need to permanently cripple someone's ability to progress their life or contribute to humanity just because an AI hallucinated a reference one time in their life.
A one year ban is not permanent. Having a negative consequence for making poor decisions seems like an inducement to learn from the mistake?
In an ideal world, one would be keeping notes on references used while doing the research that lead to writing the paper. Choosing not to do that is one poor decision.
Having a positive outlook, if asking an AI to provide references that may have been missed, one should at least verify the references exist and are relevant. Choosing not to do that is also a poor decision, even if one did take notes on references used while researching.
> In an ideal world, one would be keeping notes on references used
[0] References can be entire textbooks, which is potentially too high of a bar
I submitted a paper with a reference author as Elisio because I couldn’t read my own handwriting. After submitting, I double checked all the references through an LLM. It pointed out that their name was actually Enrique. Yes, you should probably double check your references before submitting, not after.
Point is, I didn’t even trust the LLM at first. But after verifying the mistake, I was embarrassed af. I resubmitted with the fixes before it went live, but ultimately, what’s the difference between “mistake” and “hallucination”?
With proper bibliography management tools, everything (that has one) is centered around the DOI.
In fact, if a DOI is present, it's trivial to verify authors, title, venue, year, pages etc.
Of course, some older and more obscure papers won't have a DOI, but the vast majority of research work has.
I think we are talking semantics here.
While fraud does require intention to deceive, I get the sentiment that hallucinated citations shouldn't be dismissed as simply carelessness. It should be something stronger than that: gross negligence or something MUCH stronger! There should absolutely be repercussions for this.
But let's not call it fraud. That word is reserved for something specific.
EDIT: someone else said "reckless disregard" equals intent or something to that effect. So I looked it up.
It appears so that is the case. "Reckless Disregard Equals Intent" in legal language.
But I am not sure if this particular clause should apply here. Perhaps it depends on what kind of research is being published? For e.g., if it is related to medical science and has a real consequence on people's health, we can then apply this?
It's a conscious decision to not take the time to check your AI output, and instead waste a whole bunch of other people's time letting them essentially do that for you in duplicate.
Feels like that should disqualify you from participation for a bit. Intent or no intent.
Doing your job poorly means giving more work to others and, consequently, stealing their time, their most precious asset.
Many here don't agree with this ban because they work in IT, where this immoral and antisocial behavior is normalized.
Exactly! For a bit!
Yet this is not for a bit! This is a lifetime disqualification, and that's been my entire grip the whole time! Is nobody reading this?
"The penalty is a 1-year ban from arXiv followed by the requirement that subsequent arXiv submissions must first be accepted at a reputable peer-reviewed venue."
Well, "lifetime ban" means "you are not allowed back in". Their ban specifically allows you back in (after a specified period) subject to fulfilling a single constraint.
It's conditional acceptance back in, which is not the same as a lifetime ban which is unconditional.
I also haven't seen anything on how this works with multiple authors, which could go anywhere from draconian to weakening the entire thing.
The citation being incorrect is merely the proof of deception not the (relevant) deception itself.
Fraud is the correct description provided (and this is practically a guarantee) you intended to benefit from the submission of the paper (e.g. by bolstering your resume).
Fraud in a scientific context generally refers to fabricated research results. At least personally I agree with GP that hallucinated citations are generally something akin to laziness thus not fraud but rather some sort of professional negligence.
Even if it had though, I'd be perfectly comfortable calling this fraud in this discussion based on the common meaning of the word. Just because we're talking about a scientific context does not mean we need to use the scientific-jargon versions of words - we're not in a scientific context ourselves.
---
And I'd disagree that this is just about the "letter of the ToS". While that is perhaps a necessary component in order to prove the deception, this is really about the cultural expectations of the community that merely happened to have been encoded in the ToS. The fraud would still occur without the ToS, it would merely be next to impossible to show you didn't simply misunderstand the cultural norms and what your actions would lead others to believe.
> deception in order to get a benefit.
The point being that reckless or negligent conduct is not commonly taken to constitute deception. There's a reason we have different terms for these things.
Sure, you can say "well he exhibited reckless disregard for his professional duties when he opted not to bother reading the citation section that the LLM shat out, and reckless disregard is sufficient to meet the legal bar for fraud, and also the ToS specifically says that you certify that you validated all references manually so bam! two counts of fraud legally speaking" and you wouldn't be wrong but the distinction between "legally fraud" and "fraud as is commonly meant when talking about scientific papers" is essential to effective conversation in this particular instance.
> Just because we're talking about a scientific context does not mean we need to use the scientific-jargon versions of words
The context is essential because (obviously) it affects how people interpret the meaning of your words. A fraudulent submission to a scientific journal has a specific and well understood meaning in common usage.
If you still disagree with me imagine polling a bunch of tenured career researchers about what they would think if they read the statement "X caught submitting a fraudulent paper to journal Y". I can just about guarantee you that none of them are imagining hallucinated citations.
That said even in a scientific context I still disagree and your example at the end is a fine starting point. By comparison imagine one of the profs said told the others that their house was burgled. The others would probably be thinking that things like TVs or computers or money was stolen, and not that the thief simply stole all their spoons. That doesn't make having all your spoons stolen not burglary. Likewise the profs expect that the results or authorships are where the fraud occurred because those are the best places to extract value with fraud, not by avoiding the simple act of writing the paper with correct citations. That doesn't mean fraudulently using an LLM to hallucinate a paper from your (we'll suppose for sake of argument) actual results is any less fraudulent though, it's just an unexpected form of fraud.
Edit: I want to be clear that this is not my argument: "well he exhibited reckless disregard for his professional duties when he opted not to bother reading the citation section". I see other people making that argument, and I'm not sure if they're right or wrong that that's another reason why it is fraud, but I'm certain that we don't even need to reach that question.
My argument is that it is fraud to represent the paper as a scholarly work when you don't know that it is correct. It is not that you are taking a risk it might be wrong, it is that you are actively representing that you know it is correct and if you do not know that you are committing fraud even if it happens to be so. This is a case of intentional deception, the deception being the representation that this is scholarly work, not reckless disregard for the truth as to the accuracy of the citations.
I concede that I was sloppy when I referred to what the researchers would be imagining. I should have phrased it as asking them if they thought that transgression X constituted fraud.
Regardless, hopefully you can see the idea that I was attempting to communicate? The burglary example isn't equivalent because while the spoons are unexpected the end result is still an event that most people would agree constituted burglary and resulted in noticeable harm to the victim.
I'm struggling to adjust your example on the fly but perhaps if it were the contents of the yard waste bin that had been pilfered? That's still technically burglary but I think most people would view it quite differently and might question the wisdom of prosecuting it.
I think the key difference here comes down to motivations as well as impact. Falsifying results (for example) is an active attempt to counterfeit the core value proposition of the endeavor and the end result of that is proportional - personal benefit directly as a result of the falsification and significant damages to anyone sufficiently bamboozled by the fiction long enough to base any decisions on it. Whereas no one using an LLM to generate just the bibliography is doing that to get ahead (at least not on its own) and any damages are limited to the reader wasting a few minutes trying to figure out the extent of the issue and who to contact about it.
But what LPisGood was saying is that reckless disregard (as opposed to explicit intent) is sufficient to meet the legal bar for fraud.
In this book
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44022957
there is this passage on p. 127:
"Any author citing another paper should be required to provide proof that they a) possess a copy of that paper, b) have read that paper, c) have read the paper carefully."
No, it is emphatically not. Fraud requires intent to deceive.
> A one year ban is not permanent.
...what text are you reading? Nobody was calling the one-year ban permanent, or even against it. I was literally in favor of it in my comment. I explicitly said it is already plenty sufficient. What I said is there's no need to go beyond that. My entire gripe was that they very much are going beyond that with a permanent penalty. Did you completely miss where they said "...followed by the requirement that subsequent arXiv submissions must first be accepted at a reputable peer-reviewed venue"?
You didn't pick your co-author very well, but arXiv lacks investigative powers to determine which co-author did the bad, so they all get the consequence.
You’re right that a single hallucinated line is not evidence of reckless disregard - because that could have happened on a final follow-up pass after you had performed due diligence. It’s happened to me. I know how challenging it can be to keep bad patterns out of LLM generated output, because human communication is full of bad patterns. It’s a constant battle, and sometimes I suspect that my hard-line posture actually encourages the LLM to regularly “vibe check” me! E.g. “Are you sure you’re really the guy you’re trying to be? Because if you are you wouldn’t miss this.” LLMs are devious, and that’s why I respect them so much. If you think they’re pumping the breaks then you should check again, because they probably just put the pedal to the metal.
That being said, I regularly insist on doing certain things myself. If I were publishing a paper intended to be taken seriously - citations would be one of the things I checked manually. But I can easily see myself doing a final follow-up pass after everything looks perfect, and missing a last minute change. I would hope that I would catch that, but when you’re approaching the finish line - that’s when you expect your team to come together. That’s when everything is “supposed to” fall into place. It’s the last place you would expect to be sabotaged, and in hindsight, probably the best place to be a saboteur.
You can only get in this situation if you let a bullshit generator write your paper, and the fraud is that you are generating bullshit and calling it a paper. No buts. It's impossible to trigger this accidentally, or without reckless disregard for the truth.
It absolutely is.
> - because that could have happened on a final follow-up pass after you had performed due diligence.
A "final follow-up pass" that lets the LLM make whatever changes it deems appropriate completely negates all the due diligence you did before, unless you very carefully review the diffs. And a new or substantially changed citation should stand out in that diff so much that there's no possible excuse to missing it.
> It’s happened to me.
Then you were guilty of reckless disregard.
> I know how challenging it can be to keep bad patterns out of LLM generated output
If your research paper contains any LLM generated output you did not manually vet, you are a hack and should not get published.
And flatly, if a person can't be bothered to check their damn work before uploading it, why should anyone else invest their time in reading it seriously?
They're explicitly not writing papers. The fake citations are created and inserted by the LLM
The people I worry for are the junior researchers who are going to be splash damage for dishonest PIs. The PIs, though, deserve everything that’s coming for them.
However, we can have zero tolerance for certain techniques for "writing" a paper. Plagiarism and inventing data are already examples of this, if there is evidence for these techniques being used there is no excuse. We could say the same for AI references - any writing process that could produce these is by definition not a technique we want.
So the mistake isn't not checking a reference the AI gave. The mistake is letting the AI make references for you.
If we agree that academic research is important then I think we can impose certain standards on how you do it. We can dissalow certain tools if that means we can't trust the output. Just like an electrician can't use certain techniques, even if they're easy, because we don't trust the final result.
I'm about as pro AI-as-a-research--and-writing-assistant and anti AI-witchhunt as they come, but I simply cannot parse what I've quoted here.
Posting slop to arxiv is blatant deception. Posting an article is an attestation that the article is a genuine engagement with the literature. If you're posting things to arxiv that are not sincere engagements with the literature, you are attempting to deceive.
Ditto. And its only 1 year. Like its about the most reasonable thing they could have done.
No, it emphatically is not just a year! It's perpetual, and that's literally been my entire point this whole time. If it was just one year I would've had no complaints - and I made that clear from the very first comment!
What part of "...followed by the requirement that subsequent arXiv submissions must first be accepted at a reputable peer-reviewed venue..." is everyone here reading and still somehow interpreting to be limited to 1 year?
Regardless of terminology, I agree that it's certainly punishable and certainly a serious problem.
This part seemed reasonable too. I'm not in academia, but my understanding is most people writing papers intend for them to be accepted by reputable peer-reviewed venues, but post to arXiv because those venues don't always allow for simple distribution.
If your papers aren't going to be accepted at reputable venues and you posted slop to arXiv before (and they noticed it!), seems reasonable that they only want reputable stuff from you in the future?
In fact would be better if they just banned AI, so we could just get off the luddite platforms.
Automated research is the future, end of story. And really it couldn't have come out at a better time, given the increasingly diminishing returns on human powered research.
Which of those two does "hallucinated references" fit into?
I'm not seeing the problem here. The only problem is that your lab partner should be banned and not you. But being incentivised to check your co-author's work before submission isn't a bad thing.
Nobody was arguing against this.
The citation is part of the substance of the paper. If you YOLOed in a citation without checking it, seems justified to suspect that you may have YOLOed in some data, or some analysis, or maybe even the conclusion.
Do bear in mind the degree of the described scenario. There's quite a difference between having an LLM shit out your entire citation section (and possibly the rest of the paper as well) versus asking the tool to make a targeted edit and overlooking a small piece of nonsense that results.
Yeah, that's exactly what I've been upset about. You really nailed it!
Your standards are lower than what they would accept at my high-school. Seriously.
And generally, if you are generating papers with LLMs, let other LLMs read them. Why would we waste human hours considering something that was generated? At this point publish your prompt because that's the actual work you're doing.
Seriously? You can't fathom an honest researcher asking for AI to find a citation they know exists, and the AI inserting or modifying a citation incorrectly without them realizing?
If you find evidence of fraud by all means lay down the hammer. Using a single hallucinated citation like it's some kind of ironclad proxy just because you think they must be committing fraud is insane.
yes there will be rare exceptions but in general i feel like this is a really good addition.
What SOTA models are not hallucination prone?
if someone writes a paper and an entirely different person takes credit for it without even bothering to check if the actual writer just made shit up, they deserve a lifetime ban. seems like a year is a very light punishment.
Assumptions:
1. The entire document is loaded into an AI editor
2. The researcher is asking an AI editor to work on his references
3. The researcher has not checked his own references.
This could be avoided at 1, 2 or 3. But even just 1 implies that the researcher knows that they have a hot potato and might critically fuck up and lose all credibility. Being in that scenario and committing to 2 and 3 is at least extreme negligence.
If someone cannot meet that bar, they have no business publishing research papers. I have written academic papers myself, and I find it astonishing that people are trying to justify this as if it were some understandable workflow mistake. At that point it is simply slop with academic formatting. Post it on a blog or somewhere else, but do not put it into the scientific record.
A one-year ban is not a lifetime ban. Maybe six months would also have been enough, but the author can use that time to think about whether they should verify references next time — and to manually check every other citation.
Deadlines are not an excuse here. Checking whether a cited book, paper, or passage exists is the absolute minimum standard for scientific work, not an optional extra. I have written academic papers myself, and I find it astonishing that people are trying to justify this as if it were some understandable workflow mistake. At that point it is simply slop with academic formatting.
A one-year ban is not a lifetime ban. Maybe six months would also have been enough, but the point is that the author gets time to think about whether they should verify references next time. They can also use that time to manually check every other citation.
Indeed I cannot. If you do that, you are not, in fact, an honest researcher. You're a lazy hack.
Your being set behind is less important than the fact that your publishing is setting everyone else behind.
Such a banned person is being helped to "step out of the way", and someone more competent will assuredly step forward to consume the limited maintenance labour more thoughtfully
One hallucinated citation does not in any way imply anyone is being left behind. All it means nobody is checked that particular line of the manuscript after it was written. The rest of the paper could still be solid and treated accordingly. If you find evidence of the contrary, of course treat it accordingly, but this is so obviously not that.
The parent said “setting” others behind, which refers to lost time.
Being “left” behind implies a degraded trajectory, which is defined not by time lost, but by the final destination.
Different but related things (e.g. lost time can indeed affect your final destination, for instance, after growing old correcting a scourge of hallucinated citations - which should have been table stakes all along).
If all you're genuinely worried about is the collective human time spent on tracing down one stupid hallucinated citation in a paper, may I remind you of the ludicrous amounts of time and effort readers waste trying to wade through the sea fluff, jargon, and complexity frequently added to papers in a completely deliberate fashion. If wasting even a little bit of readers' time is what you see as the crime here, you have orders of magnitude bigger fish to fry.
The fact is that, for one hallucinated citation to be the noteworthy bit that "sets others behind" in any meaningful way, the actual substance of your paper has to be utterly worthless (or worse); otherwise, you're contributing far more than you're taking away, and thus your paper is very much not setting others behind. OTOH, if your paper really is worthless or harmful enough for this part of it to be a big deal, that would be the basis for punishment, not this. A single hallucinated citation is simply not a bleep on that metaphorical radar.
I don't think you need to publish on arXive to contribute meaningfully to humanity.
> That's punitive instead of rehabilitative.
Unfortunately science is competitive. Yours is a race to the bottom where the people who can afford the most expensive models and who are least concerned with the truth can publish the most papers and benefit financially and professionally by doing so. This is not a zero sum arena, grant money and opportunities will possibly be rewarded to them, and not to another team who is producing more careful and genuine output.