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Personally I think Apple should have acquired them. if you could burn a gemma4 class model into an iphone and actually get extremely low latency and low battery usage it would feel like the future IMO. even if it means you wont get frontier intelligence, there might actually be incentive to buy a new mobile device every year again.
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The Taalas chips are not physically small. And part of their secret (if you look at the design) is just locating a bunch of memory soldered on the edges ( I belive higher amounts of SRAM ? )
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Baking the base models on to ROM makes a lot of economic sense. SRAM for the KV cache & fine-tunes, not so much. Sure you’d get incredible speeds but it’s not scalable from a die-size or cost perspective.

Rather base model on ROM + KV cache on DRAM is much more scalable. Also this would work great for edge devices that have a 2-5 year lifecycle.

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Baking the base models on to ROM makes a lot of economic sense.

Less so for consumers though, because it'd mean the phone is out of date in 3 months when a better model comes along.

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And the customers can wait for the new phone released next year. These are edge models - the average customer doesn’t need the latest frontier model. Just needs to be good enough for the features you promised.
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It's a perfect reason to get consumers to buy a new phone every year again! They got bored of the camera.
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It is my understanding that just baking the model itself into silicon only gives moderate gains because memory bandwidth remains a bottleneck.
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The big benefit is ROM cells require fewer components than DRAM. So the chips would be tiny, dense, cheap and consume far less power.
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I thought DRAM was pretty dense already. Is mask ROM that much denser?
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Yes, each rom bit can be a transistor or even a diode with a decoder circuit. Simplest Dram cell is capacitor+transistor - and you need a clock, refresh circuit etc.

Someday, I imagine model weights could even be encoded as analog resistors (memristors or similar) for even greater density

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Hm. I wonder how many relays I'd need to make a physical MNIST classifier. That'd be dope
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Their PoC chips are big, but then it's ridiculously fast (have you seen chatjimmy.ai?). Also they must be holding a bunch of patents.
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I don't think this works out from a cost/silicon perspective. Small models already run pretty well in software (since the weights fit in cache) and big models require silicon area proportional to the size of weights. On a mobile device putting a chip like this is competing directly in BOM and power against a whole lot more l3 cache, and the l3 cache makes everything faster
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What, even if it means you can run models without relying on the currently backlogged DRAM production?
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The size of model we're talking about running doesn't need much if any dram.
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My question is what changes about LLM use cases when you’re getting 1000 tok/s? Models in silicon might dramatically change how we think about them.
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Did you use chatjimmy? It's somewhat terrifying to use when you think of the potential results with a better model.

Ok, real life example: I now spend most of my time, as a developer, waiting for the agent to do its thing (after careful prompting, I'm also thinking about work stuff, don't worry I'm not useless). What if it gave back the same excellent results, but instantaneously? Why, then, I certainly would become the bottleneck. So, quite possibly, my last work task would be to plug this agent directly into the ticket system where the domain experts input their feature requests. Maybe we still need 1 developer out of 100, to coordinate releases and all that (ok, say 1 out of 10).

But that's not taking things far enough: why do we need these domain experts at all? Our pitch is clear, and all software-enabled, though it took years to develop. We can just have the clients express their concerns to the AI, directly or indirectly. Have multiple lighting-fast agents with different roles (refactoring agent, new features agent, debugger agent, domain expert agent, etc.). So we fire everyone, maybe keep 1 product owner / devops to keep the trolls out. The cost is still probably 100 times less than it used to be (beyond the initial cost of acquisition of the magic machine or whatever).

But one of these clients, surely, will realize that these 10 years of manual and slowly-automated development can now be emulated in very, very little time. Why not just, say, take screenshots of the entire app and feed them into the magic machine? Why, this way, they could have the service for a tenth of the yearly cost, forever!

And then the economy implodes.

I'm not saying it's THE most likely version of things, I'm saying that at a certain level, quantity (or rather, speed) is a quality all its own. And this new quality might change the world. Let's hope it's for the better!

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Errors compound, and making 1000 wrong decisions per hour, will not result in something useful. Maybe you‘ve tried setting up guardrails for good design or architecture at some point? I think it’s simply not possible to do that.

It would certainly be an accelerator for people who know exactly what they want. And it would remove multi tasking, which I‘d appreciate.

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This is the same pitch that people make about AI today. Speed isn’t the differentiator, quality is
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I'm not sure inference speed is always the slowest thing for me right now. The agent is running tests, loading webpages, etc, which all take time. I don't know if a fast agent would speed things up in all cases.

That said, it obviously depends on the project.

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> "The agent is running tests, loading webpages, etc, which all take time"

A frustrating vision of the future would be when we've been asking for faster loading lighter web pages for years and then companies start caring about it and improving it not for us humans but for LLMs.

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It's already kind of that way with MCP servers popping up everywhere. The JIRA MCP server is like a couple orders of magnitude faster to work with than the website itself.
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That’s their API with extra steps, or am I missing something? That was always faster.
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They finally cared about clear requirements and documentation when that meant getting rid of devs.
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That happened at corpo work for each of: * Build times * CI latency * Developer tooling * Documentation * Modularity
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> I now spend most of my time, as a developer, waiting for the agent to do its thing (after careful prompting, I'm also thinking about work stuff, don't worry I'm not useless).

you need to launch 10-15 more terminals, who is waiting these days? :)

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I think this reads like Ray Kurzwheil (sorry not able to spell that off top of my head, that bloke who wrote that book about the future) .. But yeah very dystopian and totally realistic. Not if but when..
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I LOVE Kurzwheil! Thank you for the compliment, I'm very far from having his writing skills. But yes sci-fi is looking more and more like, well, sci.
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In the case on on-device/self-hosted LLMs. You ask your agent to implement xyz feature 10 times and use a model to compare the outputs and combine the best results.

Raw intelligence becomes slightly less important when you can iterate and improve automatically. You can still claim it was "one shot" even when 30 different implementations were made then combined.

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Problem is, there exists no judge model that will really pick the same winner that you would.
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The best way I can explain it is that it's the same feeling when I upgraded from 56k dialup to cable broadband.
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Massive economic simulations with thousands if not millions of agents to front run the global economy and stock market.

Fully interactive realtime NPCs in videogames at scale.

Recommender systems that simulate individual consumers.

Crazy shit

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About your first example, isn’t the butterfly effect preventing this from being useful? One agent in your simulation decides to sell, and starts an avalanche, that won’t happen in reality?
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That likely isn't as relevant for on-device iPhone usage as it is for Real Work™. I won't notice the difference between 50tps and 1000tps when asking Siri a question.
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I don't know. As others have said, the Taalas chip wasn't small, or particularly low power, so it's hard to "imagine" what that tech in an cell phone chip might look like.

But if the basic premise of "good enough LLM at insane throughput" holds, I think it could qualitatively change local uses of LLMs. At a certain speed point, you're able to move from request -> response to a cascade of tool calling and "subagents", which could allow a small model to be much more useful, if provided with a lot of local data and tool calls.

That said, this is assuming you could stuff a "good enough" model into a phone with Taalas-like technology. The Taalas tech demo was an 8B parameter model and required hundreds of watts (IIRC) to run. The efficiency was good given the speed (as I understand), but it's not clear at all that the approach scales small enough to be a sensible coprocessor on an iPhone or whatever.

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Box that plugs into my desktop would be fine. Or perhaps in SSF form factor.
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But wouldn't higher tps allow for more reasoning or other hidden processes, potententially making a smarter model?
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This is my thought as well. Models have to be intentional about which tokens they burn because there's a real lag time. If you can just fork out 10 different reasoning sessions at once with no regard for token waste/lag, you can compensate a smaller model with just doing more at once with it. No idea if this is reasonably true though.
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I think that only works if you have checkpoints where all that reasoning can be checked against reality. Otherwise you get an army of armchair experts. LLMs are hilariously bad at home improvement advice btw, where reasoning alone won’t get you far.
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That order of magnitude could be the difference between "the users wants me to open the notes app, let's open it" and "I've scanned all your notes before you could blink and found what you're looking for".
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If Siri is using a 3T model in high reasoning mode to answer your question you will.
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Works great from a press release perspective though.
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The weights might fit in cache, if you're using a small model. If you wanted to have a 20B+ parameter model, that's just going in RAM. You could put more RAM in the device and pay the perf cost or have a dedicated chip. Most devices already have a dedicated chip, this just changes which silicon you're spending the money on.
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That math doesn't really work.

8B model (FP4) = 4 GB DRAM = 32 Gb DRAM = 80 mm2

8B model (Taalas) = 4 GB ROM = ~800 mm2

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That's actually a really good point... There's currently zero incentive to buying more hardware, and that's one very good reason do have a new one.
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But this is already happening with iPhones. Apple is touting on-device AI and only the latest phones offer the full capabilities. Newer phones will be able to run better models, so the incentive is there as soon as someone makes the killer app that only makes sense when the model is running locally on your phone.
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From what I remember, these chips are not mobile size yet
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A small model would be. I think that’s more the point. It’s definitely not SOTA but it’s fast and energy efficient and local.
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> A small model would be [mobile size]

A ~30mm side for the HC1 tech for an 8b model (still unclear the planned HC2)?

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Is that analogue or are they baking floating points into the silicon?
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It's entirely possible they're using something like block floating point, where most of the hardware is simply fixed point. AMD's NPU does this, for example.
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Nope, a small model would be larger than the whole iPhone SoC.
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Slightly besides your point, but it's interesting how many here naturally ponder about how the current winner could or "should" keep winning, instead of how another company could become a competitor by doing the more clever thing the incumbent isn't thinking about.
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It is not a “should”. At least not in the “we wish it were so” sense.

It is more that there are multiple reasons why this idea (burning an LLM into silicone and deploying it into a device in people’s pockets) requires huge piles of cash and the kind of engineering chops only a few company posesses.

Of course i would like it if a small upstart would do this, but it doesn’t seem likely as a posibility. They won’t have the funds to fab the IC. They won’t have the funds to train and validate the model before burning it into silicone. They can’t absorb the risk of the first tape out going wrong. They can’t absorb the risk of the model being faulty in some subtle way. They don’t have a device to integrate the IC into. They won’t have the funds to develop one. If they somehow would make a device they don’t have the marketing and sales channels built out to get the device into people’s hands in sufficient numbers to justify the development cost.

Basically this idea feels ruinously expensive. Apple has deep pockets, they already have working well-regarded phones, and an ethos of privacy preserving innovation. This is why this idea feels well suited for them and not many others.

Do i want the winners to keep winning? No. But not many others can pay for a moonshot crossed with a manhattan project. They just can’t.

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Apple is somewhere between fashion company and second rate tech company.

They could have 9 year old AI and still post profits.

Not sure if it's my pixel or android, but I made a randos jaw drop with what the crappy AI on android can do.

When are we getting android OpenClaw?

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Considering the rate of model development and rail hopping, seems like baking models into silicon is speed-running obsolescence.
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If you’re only running models for frontier capabilities, yeah. For tasks where current models are smart enough, running them 100x faster is the most impactful improvement you can make. Consider all the things you could use a model for, but don’t, because the latency is just a bit too high.
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I'd gladly pay for a Claude Opus 4.6 Thinking High in silicon and use it for 1-2 years. It's good enough for many coding tasks.
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But Claude Opus 4.6 is not really practical. Taalas' process seems targeted for edge models. Their proof of concept model, for example, is a heavily quantized version of Llama 3.1 8B and even then they acknowledge their custom 3-bit/6-bit representation causes model quality degradation.

Taalas is going to have a tough time putting a trillion-parameter model on one conventional die. Their HC1 die is already near the maximum size that conventional lithography can expose. They claim they could partition the model across many chips, but I'm not sure if they have tested this process or what it means for compute. The basic storage arithmetic is unforgiving: for a one trillion parameters model at four bits it will take 50–100 chips. To service a sizable customer base will take thousands of 100-chip fabs.

That all said, I'm bullish on this technology, and look forward to seeing it evolve.

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A really fast qwen-3.6-27B type of model could be useful. With a specialized harness and this speed I 'd expect it to find many applications. Implementing a coding plan is the minimum I can think of.
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Yeah. But this kinda feels like a bandaid.

Eventually someone will have to solve compute in memory at scale.

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With thousands of token per second output it would be an enormous waste of resources. Such chips are clearly made to process thousands of conversations simultaneously. Not necessarily in parallel. All LLM workflows are turn based right now, there are often seconds between turns until tool calls finish or users type the next message.

If the LLM response only takes a few milliseconds, the chip can process hundreds of other requests until the first conversation becomes active again.

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Not so long ago, I was good enough for many coding tasks. But I found that things can change in a hurry.

Yes, a cheap and fast Opus4.6 can drive a lot of value in current context. But if we continue to craft bigger-and-bigger balls of mud, Opus 4.6 may end up hitting its conceptual ceiling and unable to contribute.

Winding the clock back on your statement gives:

> I'd gladly pay for a Claude Sonnet 3.5 in silicon and use it for 1-2 years.

Man, I dunno.

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Assuming moore's law like progress, which I'm 100% sure isn't going to happen - I think we're at the top of the S curve already. But assuming dramatically increased intelligence every year this is still the exact same position as anyone who bought a computer in the last 5 decades. Yet, people did very much buy computers.
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It costs something like $300,000 for the hardware to run a model of that size. You'd pay that for a single model for 1-2 years? Not even the AI companies can justify that kind of spend which is why they keep extending the expected lifespan on their hardware in the accounting.
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I'm expecting the Taalas MSIC version to cost a fraction of that. Then probably have some kind of cheap subscription to Anthropic for updates (yes, Taalas chips can receive a certain kind of updates: they have a small SRAM).
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> It costs something like $300,000 for the hardware to run a model of that size

You did not compute that as the cost for a speculative card from Taalas, right?

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It's the cost of the current nvidia hardware used to run these models. Of course all bets are off if you are accounting for some future chip that doesn't exist yet which could cost less.
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It depends on how quickly you can bake new architectures.

Text diffusion might be a disruptor here, but let me just say the most cutting edhe form of image diffusion (JiT and DiT) right now is just a big fat stack of alternating attention and MLP matmulls. Not theoretically hard to bake

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Depends on how much it costs the consumer. If I could buy a "cartridge" of Kimi K3 for 300 bucks I 100% would buy that shit asap. Even if it's "no good" after lets say 4 months still would be worth it IMO.
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That's definitely super-enthousiast territory. Paying 80 bucks a month for AI is more than 99.99% of people would be willing to do
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This will be considered very cheap within the year IMO. The value you get from AI is exponentially increasing and like all tech just takes some time to ramp up. Cell phones, internet and many other amenities when they came out many people were not willing to pay for but that all changed and considering how important AI tech is this will also be the case especially considering if its 100% private such as for that cartridge.
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That's because the super-enthusiast will upgrade in 4 months when a better model is released. The casual user would keep it for years. A year of claude at the lowest plan is almost $300
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"seems like baking models into silicon is speed-running obsolescence"

Now maybe. When models are flying passenger aircraft, other prerogatives will assert themselves. When a 50TB ROM means you can impulse purchase a ChatGPT 6.3 xhigh that runs on batteries, yet more use cases will be apparent.

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Well, 50TB ROM Taalas HC1 style would be apparently a 400000b transistor system through a chip sized 2.5 meters on the side... :)
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Yes but have we considered employing, like, a really big block of ice? Like old-timey surgeries? What if we put a big block of ice on the 2.5 cubic meter CPU what happens then?
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Phones were getting too thin anyways.
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Or autonomous weapon systems, missiles, and drones.
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Why would they need multi TB frontier models?
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I could see this making sense when model development start to settle down ... it's going to settle down, right? ...
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Not sure. You can fix the transistors but leave the connections between them open for flexibility, so you only need to change the manufacturing process for the upper masks for every new model.
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Surely that added flexibility negatively impacts the density/parameter count of the model you could etch?
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Or do a hybrid
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Compute the cost of producing n of them devices, imagine a fair price based on that, and see if that local, blazing fast card* can be an asset that could be replaced periodically.

*(It's local: private files managing firm oriented. It's blazing fast: it can be placed into recursive, intensive local workflows.)

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Which is exactly what companies and shareholders want to increase sales.
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Look at it the other way: compared to the cost of training a model, the cost of making a custom ASIC is trivial.
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obsolescence is the whole point. apple gets to sell a new phone very 6-12 months because of it.

i have written about this:

"For device makers

Packaging models with laptops and smartphones will let application access near free, low latency inference and potentially offer users a better experience with the option of preserving data on-device. This is viable under the condition that tasks that do require larger expert models that run in the cloud can be routed to external models. A side-effect of local models and what will let Apple cut upgrade cycles from ~4 years (?) down to 12-18 months is specialized hardware to run them. For almost a decade, smartphones have been trying to compete on better cameras. This coming decade will see them selling better GPUs, NPUs, ASICs and whatever other things they'll be calling the inference chips, to drive re-purchase. Every six months will see a better model on new hardware, which will enable better performance in certain applications."

https://try.works/role-model-the-case-for-a-model-routing-pr...

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No, the point is inference speed and power.
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you don't understand what I wrote.
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Their thing is improving the models; it would be extremely counter-company-culture to bet on models plateau-ing. Maybe wise in terms of hedging, but still difficult to pull of as a company decision.
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You need to find customers for several-generations-ago models before this makes any sense. AMD is a lot more incentivized to look than mr vanilla llm is
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This seems like a very bad and dangerous direction for our society.
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ASICs is what took over Bitcoin mining, cheaper in all ways, and lasts longer than Nvidia GPUs for inference.
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> cheaper in all ways,

Bitcoin mining doesn't have large memory requirements, but does have huge compute requirements. ASICs work great there because it's very straightforward to add some circuits for computing hashes. If you _also_ have to add many GB of memory, then suddenly ASICs will cost as much or more than comparable off-the-shelf hardware and they won't be faster unless you've also invested in huge memory bandwidth.

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My understanding is an ASIC can last 10+ years, where are Nvidia enterprise GPUs are rated for 5...
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Most enterprise GPUs are scrap after 5 years because they're so inefficient compared to newer models. It's entirely possible to make them last longer by undervolting them, people just don't because it doesn't make sense.

Bitcoin OTOH has used the same PoW algorithm for a decade. Barring some really exciting discoveries about the nature of computation, new ASICs are not that much more efficient than old ones.

BTC mining is also not exactly competitive anymore; the nature of the PoW algorithm means that it's dominated by a few large players who've set up shop next to a dam and who pay very little for electricity.

New entrants are highly discouraged because the mining rewards are constantly halving, it's hard to find cheap power, and the price of BTC is now so volatile that a yearslong investment is very likely to lose money.

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Isn’t that kind of useless for the stock? It sounds complicated, unlike having number of CPUs go up.

It’s like talking about anything else than Megapixels when everyone was convinced that megapixels must go up in certain periods of the smartphone boom.

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I’m surprised Nvidia hasn’t partnered to make a Claude chip yet. It’s a win/win you can license them out, sell them when they become obsolete, etc.
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Not necessarily: it is relevant to Taalas only if it is a compute-in-memory architecture.

The Jalapeño mentioned («Anthropic is not alone in walking this path») in the article is still a classical Von Neumann architecture.

And Taalas' idea makes sense in a perspective of scale - producing a large number of cards; "for internal use" (a lower order of items) means a high production cost.

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I guess I'm not understanding why this makes sense for AMD to buy Taalas unless they plan to get into hosting. It doesn't seem like a great fit.
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Just to see how fast it is try chatjimmy.ai
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It is really fast and ... really hallucinates. I asked "Does the Wang corporation still exist? If not, what happened to it?" and it replied (in part):

"Yes, the Wang Corporation, the company that originally developed and marketed the Wang 2200 computer, still exists as a rebranded company under the name PPL (Precision Pencil and Label), but it has undergone significant changes and challenges over the years.

Here's a brief overview of what happened:

    Founding and Growth: The Wang Corporation was founded by An Wang in 1969."
In fact, Wang labs was founded in 1951. PPL seems to be a made up entity. But it did generate those "facts" in 0.033 seconds. If people value speed over accuracy then I can write an LLM that is 100x faster than chatjimmy.ai and make big bucks by responding one of N canned responses to any question.
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their tech is a mere demo to open up a new path, the day we can have some asics running a Qwen3.6 27b, this would open up new doors
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Pretty incredible to see. It reminds me of when I first used the Groq chatbot, except in this case it's a full response instantly.
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Didn’t Anthropic acquire Cerebras? Seems like a move into the same direction.

I also think that etching models into ASICs may be a bit too inflexible for what OpenAI and Anthropic want.

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No, that's backwards. OpenAI are the ones investing in Cerebras. Part of the deal is that they can't sell to Anthropic.
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Because Openai and anthropic are not hardware companies. They outsource that to Broadcom and AWS' Annapurna labs.
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OpenAI and Anthropic are both designing ASICs.
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So they have decided that putting a small LLM on a phone would backfire because people would have a negative perception of their cloud models. Pretty sure AMD will use these taalas chips in data centers, not phones
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A model can't be updated, and a chip that is only relevant for 6 months at max?
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Depends what you mean by relevant. If you use AI primarily as a search/knowledge engine, it makes no sense. If it's your capable assistant that has a lot of general knowledge, can do tool calls, and has a big context window, very doable.

Indeed, for some kinds of applications involving secure/legal data etc. I can see the consistency of silicon winning out, because it combines performance with immutability and guardrails in hardware. Some chips have write-once PROMs to store password hashes and similar, you could do the same thing with prompt hashing to absolutely force or forbid certain behaviors. A model that can't be updated is also a model that can't be hacked.

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People already buy new phones every year, this just creates even more reason to do so
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Outside of this website I've never met a person who buys a new phone every year. It's closer to every 3-4 years for most people.
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Closer to every 5-6 years these days and with ram prices going up it will be even longer. Especially with the low/mid range phones, which are most phones outside some developed countries, people will keep their phones as long as they can.
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Would depend on the income levels, but yeah, buying a new phone these days is entirely a non essential luxury. An iphone easily lasts 7 years so the moment money is tight, it's a very easy choice to not buy a new one.
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Your location/income bias is showing. Most people do not buy new phones every year.
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I live in the bay area and buy a phone maybe every 3 years? Why do people waste so much money :D
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Base model sure, but the stack will be hybrid. It’s still early days here. Too bad FPGAs have such large feature size.
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One of these chips smart enough to take orders at a drive-thru would be relevant for a decade, minimum.
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It's a terrible moat. You etch the silicon then nobody wants to run it in 6 months because models have advanced that much further.
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Not so if it's embedded in something smart enough for its intended purpose.

Think vision, spatial reasoning, speech synthesis, even some speech analysis. Think self-driving cars (and drones) that need 10x less power for the brain, and can think at 10x situation per second.

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This is only true for people who are solely focused on performance. There is absolutely a market for acceptable performance combined with predictability.
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True, but predictability cuts both ways.

We're all used to having to constantly update our browsers and phones to keep up with the security arms race. If a frozen model can't be updated, it will predictably remain vulnerable to any "exploits" or idiosyncratic quirks that people discover over time.

Let's say, as somebody suggested in another comment, that you buy 100,000 of these chips and deploy them to run fast-food drive-thrus. And then somebody discovers the model has a fondness for goblins[1], and if you role-play convincingly enough, you can get it to accept payment in shiny buttons and rodent skulls instead of cash.

What do you do then? I guess your options are to try and fix the behavior with a better prompt, or put some kind of filter in front of the model to catch attempted exploits. If the filter is cheap and dumb it probably won't work well enough, and if you use another model as a filter, you've negated the cost and speed benefits of putting the first model in hardware.

Of course the real answer is to just never expose the model to situations where an adversarial input could possibly lead to an undesired output. But that drastically limits what you can do with it.

[1]: https://openai.com/index/where-the-goblins-came-from/

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I see your argument but your example seems highly contrived. I can't think why you'd want to use something like this for something as dynamic as takeout ordering, where you might have to deal with bad customers, supply chain breakages, public health recalls, or any of many other probabilistic events.

I think it's far more likely to see them used in safety critical applications where you need a capable model that can run on low power and doesn't have multiple layers of operating abstractions between the model and the hardware.

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What safety critical applications would be a good fit for LLMs?
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> Of course the real answer is to just never expose the model to situations where an adversarial input could possibly lead to an undesired output. But that drastically limits what you can do with it.

Does it though? Isn't that what CPUs are, very fast-not-so-clever computing brain surrounded by layers that protect it?

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If a model is good enough today, it's still gonna be good enough in a year. Except you'll be able to serve it 1/100 of the price. Or 100x the speed.
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OTOH, people get a new iPhone every year and they are ok with it.
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How is that in any way related to a consumer device? This method doesn't reduce physical memory requirements, so still results in huge die area. This isn't a for-end-user thing, probably for decades.
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Ok, how long until nvidia gives us a new GPU?
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I don't follow. How is that related? GPUs don't have fixed memory. You don't throw them away when you want to load a new model.

NVIDIA will probably give us a new GPU when someone competent in the free market decides they want wheelbarrows full of money. Unfortunately, AMD is entirely, incomprehensibly, incompetent, to the point where I can only assume they're colluding with Nvidia, behind the scenes.

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It googles models suck
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