that's not what I did
> just because the marketing
not just because of the marketing
> of a for-profit corporation with previous histories of privacy violations (there's even lawsuits) claims their closed source device connected 24/7 to the internet, is private.
in other words, they are being watched and held accountable when they do screw up, which obviates a lot of the "well maybe they're stealing your data and we don't know about it" nonsense elsewhere in the replies.
I'll ask something specific: We know that Rokus and built-in smart TVs are actively tracking and monetizing everything you do on your television. People can prove this by looking at what calls are made on your network.
Does Apple do the same thing?
Does Apple TV even do ACR in any form? Is it scanning my network and phoning home about it?
I'm sorry, you're stating this like some obvious fact. Apple has previously said this is not the case and they do not do ACR. The Apple TV is the only Apple device I have, so you can set aside any reflexive critiques of my brand loyalty. What is your precise claim? Why am I a dullard for reading that Apple TV does not use ACR and believing it?
The entire reason I bought an Apple TV was to reduce the amount of data skimming happening in the background and ads being shoved in front of my face in the foreground, it's not like I'm lousy with options.
The problem is that you need to trust Apple, and verifying what is going on is difficult. Apple controls the device entirely, and the user is captive because the hardware cannot be repurposed. The "hacker community" should simply reject these user-hostile devices that feel like jails.
You're just making stuff up. Apple TV does not do ACR.
Apple does provide a TV App API that allows select app developers to get a special entitlement allowing them to contribute viewing data. Read this carefully: https://developer.apple.com/support/terms/apple-developer-pr...
"Apple will obtain user consent based on the user’s Apple Account before including Your Licensed Application in the TV App Features displayed under that Apple Account. Apple will also provide users with the ability to withdraw such consent at any time thereafter and to delete their TV App Data from Apple’s systems."
For profit org that has its personalized ad part of business growing massively, is scanning all your photos, gives all data to NSA like there is no tomorrow is somehow better, becase carefully crafted PR said so.
Especially if one is not US citizen, or multinational, or US citizen not on US soil, and so on.
They make great, hard vendor-locked hardware and mediocre software. Lets keep them at that and not some magical privacy champions when they are not, not where it actually matters.
Your post doesn't sound any different, what with the tarring a group of people with the same brush.
You've decided that your feelings about a type of company trump anybody else's opinions about a particular company. With a fairly derisive tone, at that.
Isn't that what they are actually complaining against? This is just circular reasoning.
I even had a mod here tell me that's not the case..lol
Do you consider Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro as mediocre?
Apple Intelligence takes a single screenshot of your screen when you explicitly direct it to. It does not take routine or scheduled screenshots and it does not exfiltrate or otherwise use the information other than to answer your query.
Private Cloud Compute goes to great lengths to prove it can't violate your privacy. In general, Apple likes to back itself up like this, which is one of the reasons I have such high confidence in them.
Funny how the OP carefully skimmed this part out in their reply, but BINGO, I think this is the attitude we should have towards privacy. Sometimes I just feel like we're talking to a bunch of bots on here when it comes to privacy with their blind support towards for-profit corporations that doesn't give a shit about them.
lol
>we're talking to a bunch of bots on here
Ah. Okay. In a different tenor of conversation I'd be happy to clarify but...not when I'm up against this.
Keep the firewall of skepticism high.
I've always seen Apple TV as the least-bad option compared to Roku/Fire/whatever Google is doing these days/literally any built-in solution.
If this was your original statement, I think we all would be on your side - I even use an Apple TV 4k personally and love it. It definitely is the best in the market for what it does.
> it's the one box I can (reasonably) trust to not be mining my viewing habits for data.
Instead, you framed it as the only privacy-friendly option and that is logically and factually incorrect.
They come with different tradeoffs wrt price, A/V quality, user interface, privacy, etc.
For me, the #1 thing is A/V quality. I don’t care about price, but most people do.
(There are also some boxes made specifically for this, usually sold as development platforms for STB products, marketed based on what SoC they contain. Though they’ll tend to be $200, while the random “finished product” streaming box will be more like $30. Both come with decent remotes.)
Is there any examples of this that isn't an obscure model last sold in 2015? This would be quite compelling as an alternative to a Linux box, especially now that hardware is expensive again. You don't really need Netflix et al if you can open a Web browser and head for the sea.
I'm also interested in alternatives, but LineageOS on a cheap box isn't really one.
You don't need Netflix, Prime, or Disney+. Don't be a sheep, build a collection of Linux ISOs and/or use your Web browser. There is plenty of content out there.
“Content”. Yuck. I’m a discerning series and film watcher.
That's precisely what you did.
Yes, they did:
https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-pay-95-million-settle-si...
Apple routinely recorded their private conversations after they activated Siri unintentionally, and disclosed these conversations to third parties such as advertisers.
edit: link
"Apple has never used Siri data to build marketing profiles, never made it available for advertising, and never sold it to anyone for any purpose," Apple said on Wednesday.
Unintentionally activating Siri and then recording is very different from the active listening things going on. Shared with advertisers was speculation.
Again, you don't know they aren't doing any of these privacy violations again right now. You are just vomiting their marketing BS again and again "Apple means privacy". Historically their shady acts weren't discovered until much later - battery gate, siri lawsuit, etc. You're starting on personal attacks and sounding more like a bot, so I'm going to stop here.
and then
> and sounding more like a bot
Pot, kettle, etc.
Per HN guidelines: "Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes."
This has nothing to do with the specific question I asked, and I'm not sure why you'd think so unless Roku has some kind of Siri-like feature (which wasn't what I was intending when I asked regardless). (also, that's a dead link)
My point is, it's a for-profit corporation. And a really efficient one. They don't care about anyone's privacy or anything else. Only profits. History has proof - battery gate, siri lawsuit, etc.
Is there some actual evidence of collusion with the big tech companies? Because I haven’t seen it. (Telecoms I’ve heard were and are much more integrated.)
The next Snowden disclosure (MUSCULAR) was significantly more concerning though. It was that the NSA was tapping the internal fiber of Big Tech companies. I was at Google when the Snowden disclosures broke, and read the SRE postmortem. They found 2 fiber cuts underneath the English Channel, an hour apart, lining up with the start of the program as disclosed by Snowden. My inference is that the NSA paid off MI6 to send a submarine commando team to cut and tap the fiber of an American company, without consent, and then all the data was shared through Five-Eyes reciprocal data sharing agreements. Google leadership was hopping mad after this, but it would've been impolitic to bring it to the public. They started encrypting all internal traffic soon after, assuming that their internal network was compromised by various nation-state actors, which had some unfortunate effects on their internal culture of openness.
The head security guy where I worked 20 years ago was already saying this.
Anywhere I’ve worked it was firewall everything and use VPNs, and most places still do this. SFTP was in the too hard basket. And of course that led to people emailing files around as standard practice (and the only option) and inevitably some got emailed to the wrong recipients.
Honestly, based on what? That they haven't been caught?
That said they are not perfect - e.g their wording in their own tracking consent prompts vs the ones they force on others.
That's marketing. Do you always trust everything in marketing material?
Always missing from the paranoid lunatic side of this discussion: what devices do you use? I presume you do all your computing on an abacus?
Quite a bold statement. How do they compare with technology companies such as proton, signal... ?
With Apple, you are the customer. With others, you’re the product. It’s an easy differentiator for them, plain and simple.
Phone theft is a growing problem again, but it’s still less common than it was because they need to get an unlocked device, and I don’t hear them targeting Apple in particular.
> They sell their own products to you and that’s all they care about.
You can also extend this to say that they want you to only buy their devices/services. If you have an iPhone then non-Apple smart watches are missing basic functionality such as replying to text messages. Force everyone to use Safari and limit it's functionality to force apps onto the App Store (30% cut!).
I mean, it's what they _say_ they do. Do we know?
Do you have any evidence to present, or is this pure FUD?
But I do think that, in general, Apple tends to be the least-bad actor among its mainstream competitors: its primary business model does not depend on harvesting and selling data, and it has made this value proposition a part of its marketing, and people high up in the company have spoken about ways that they personally value it. And, for any story about ways in which Apple has failed here, there are certainly twice as many for any other company they compete with.
I mean, step back: Who cares more about my privacy - Apple or Google? Apple or Roku? Can anyone seriously argue the latter for either?
> I'm only asking if people put faith in Apples claims because they're, well, Apple, or do we _know_ their claims are valid.
If we _know_, then there would be no need for faith. Given the lack of options and the lack of certainty, people must place their faith somewhere (or take on a lot of technical burden to roll their own); given everything I've seen, it's more reasonable to place faith in Apple than basically anyone else in "Big Tech" in this regard.
(But again: if there's a product out there that is very similar to Apple TV in every way except that it is more private: please tell me what that product is. I'd be thrilled to consider it.)
Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.
HN is countless different people with the full range of views on most topics. “It” doesn't hate (or love) any one thing, and these kinds of comments insinuating that it is one entity with one view are so lame. Please observe the guidelines if you want to participate here.
Yes, Apple has actually put work into designing, building, and shipping secure enclaves. Yes, they have put a gargantuan amount of work into PCC to uphold the claims they make about its privacy. Yes, they employ differential privacy. Yes, they have shipped a feature that enables privacy-conscious users to be the only ones to hold the keys to their iCloud account. And on and on and on. Nothing will ever be enough for you.
You aren’t asking these questions in good faith. If you were, you’d have your answers already.
I have and don't see much evidence at all except a bunch of influencers saying Apple is tops in privacy.
Apple has plenty of default settings gaps that allow THEM to collect your data. They capitulate in certain markets. And who knows what Trump made them do?
I presume truth and facts are important, no?
This is a funny one because users need to opt-in to sharing app install analytics with app developers. You don't get to opt-out of sharing it with Apple, even if you're installing apps from a third-party app store!
…while running far worse stuff themselves, the whole time.
This is all only mentioned in the footnote of an iCloud security document [1].
Apple cares about your privacy, so much that they made a backdoor through bad defaults, well in reach of the CLOUD Act.
[1] Footnote 9 in https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651
Most people don't even understand that when their favorite app that says E2E that that app still has access to the clear text before it's encrypted...
They want the device to be a mechanism for you to purchase things. Hence the “Apple card” and all the hullabaloo around that. You’ll only use your phone if you perceive it to be secure. Apple’s investments in Secure Enclave’s, sandboxing are all directly linked to their belief that this will help the consumer perceive the safety of the product- and again, it goes back to the perception of the brand.
Quality craftsmanship has properties that outsiders can perceive- even if they don’t understand it. Apple makes those investments.
Google- well, they just make things and then abandon them. Android’s bizzaro world open source is a chaotic mess that reflects the lack of discipline in Google’s leadership.
And I don't know what Google has to do with this.
I trust Apple for a number of reasons, but I really had to be really aggressive about the TV it’s connected to.
But also, a smaller footprint is a smaller footprint. I’ll take “better” where I can get it.
If/when devices start shipping with cellular modems and eSIMs... honestly not sure. Faraday cage? Physically remove the modem? (If that doesn't prevent the device from booting.)
If it does then don’t buy it?
For privacy, I'd recommend hardware with as few blobs as possible and of course an unlocked bootloader.
https://www.reuters.com/legal/apple-pay-95-million-settle-si...
Apple routinely recorded their private conversations after they activated Siri unintentionally, and disclosed these conversations to third parties such as advertisers.
The only standard they will accept is absolute perfection. It doesn’t matter all of the drastic steps they’ve taken to ensure that past mistakes are never made again or that their hands are tied when governments make demands of them in the future. It doesn’t matter that they’re demonstrably orders of magnitude better than everyone else.
Only for internet comment purposes. I’ve found that these same jabronis actually tend to run crappy and wildly unsafe home rolled kludges, for themselves.
Or maybe they are just not caught yet. They are now running ads, where is the data coming for that. They stop others from using the APIs but nothing stop their first party apps to snoop and use the data.
Apple AirTag is the biggest privacy nightmare out there and I am not sure why people keep Apple separate from other data hungry companies
This is a common judgement among the technically literate.
> Breaking down why Apple TVs are privacy advocates’ go-to streaming device
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/06/all-the-ways-apple-t...
To me, it doesn’t make sense to rate all levels of imperfection the same. Of course Apple isn’t perfect. But that’s not am important question.
Apple’s the only major purveyor of these kinds of devices whose existential business model is not predicated on privacy violations. Hardly a guarantee of good behavior (and we’ll see what happens in the future). But a lot better than the alternatives.